Real Estate Talk Podcast with Jesus Castanon | RETalkPodcast
The Ultimate Real Estate Unveiling! Raw, Real & Revealing insights from industry experts
Dive headfirst into real estate's most electrifying depths with industry legends - Jesus Castanon, Josh Cadillac, and Richard L. Barbara. Why legends? With billion-dollar deals, groundbreaking innovations, and wisdom that's transformed the landscape, they've not just witnessed the game; they've been the game-changers. And if that's not enough, they're joined by a parade of industry-expert guests, spilling secrets and dishing advice that you won't hear anywhere else.
Expect RAW, REAL strategies that shook the market, REVEALING insights, and timely takes on today's market, coupled with actionable advice.
This isn't your typical real estate chitchat. This is RETalkPodcast - where the titans and top minds of the industry unite. Dive in, and prepare to have your real estate perceptions rocked!
Real Estate Talk Podcast with Jesus Castanon | RETalkPodcast
EP 42: Jody Strittmatter & mental coach Bobby Dughi on building mentally strong, successful athletes
What if balancing professional expertise and personal parenting wasn't as complicated as it seems? In our latest episode, we sit down with Bobby, a mental conditioning coach who’s no stranger to the wrestling mat, and Jody, a celebrated youth wrestling coach, to uncover the unique challenges and rewards of coaching their own children. By sharing personal anecdotes and discussing the intersection of sports psychology and parenting, we promise you'll gain valuable insights into fostering both mental resilience and a love for the sport in young athletes.
Discover how focusing on effort and improvement can transform a young athlete's experience. Through the stories of wrestlers like Jason Nolte and Spencer Lee, we delve into the varied responses kids have to training and competition. We explore the significance of adapting coaching styles to meet individual needs, underscoring the importance of a supportive and positive environment. Learn from our guests' experiences on how to handle early aggressive tactics and their aftermath, and the crucial role of a balanced approach in youth sports parenting.
Ever wondered how financial incentives, faith, and technology are shaping the landscape of youth athletics? Our conversation extends to these broader impacts, highlighting the importance of fostering an environment that promotes both athletic excellence and personal development. Whether it's through the lens of wrestling or other sports like tennis, we discuss the critical transition periods for young athletes, the role of extrinsic rewards, and the evolving dynamics of early sports participation. Join us for a heartfelt exploration of guiding young athletes towards their fullest potential and ensuring they find joy and fulfillment in their journey.
Real Estate Talk Podcast with Jesus Castanon - @retalkpodcast: The Ultimate Real Estate Unveiling! Raw, Real & Revealing insights from industry experts
Dive headfirst into real estate's most electrifying depths with industry legends - Jesus Castanon, Josh Cadillac, and Richard L. Barbara. Why legends? With billion-dollar deals, groundbreaking innovations, and wisdom that's transformed the landscape, they've not just witnessed the game; they've been the game-changers. And if that's not enough, they're joined by a parade of industry-expert guests, spilling secrets and dishing advice that you won't hear anywhere else.
Expect RAW, REAL strategies that shook the market, REVEALING insights, and timely takes on today's market, coupled with actionable advice.
This isn't your typical real estate chitchat. This is RETalkPodcast - where the titans and top minds of the industry unite. Dive in, and prepare to have your real estate perceptions rocked!
Meet The Legends:
Jesus Castanon: Visionary CEO of Real Estate EMPIRE Group, transforming property transactions into success stories.
Josh Cadillac: Renowned real estate coach, national speaker, and author; revolutionizing the art of 'closing for life.'
Richard L. Barbara, Esq.: Florida's legal luminary, pioneering change and setting the gold standard in real estate advocacy.
The most famous get up right when they're at the bottom. You know screaming during a match. Do it, don't do it. So if it's not technical instruction, it does absolutely no good and mostly harm. Is that fair to say? I love having these real talks, to be honest with you, because it puts things in perspective. Put these little recording glasses on, because these are these, uh, behind the ones.
Speaker 1:Every once in a while, I'll turn them on. Have you seen these, the meta ones? They make you smarter. Is that what they are? I wouldn't take them off. I'd be sleeping with those things. No, you can record. It's a camera. That's amazing. Like high level camera, like 4K. It's crazy, that's cool. Yeah, so, like it's crazy, that's cool, yeah, so I could just boom all of a sudden. I could take a picture and just snap it Like Iron man. Yeah, it's crazy, it's great. All right, we're ready. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to tell you like I feel, like I have Brad Pitt on this podcast. I'm super excited about this because you know, you know, listen, uh, I didn't grow up a wrestler, but, uh, I'd be lying to you if I if I told you that, that I'm not completely obsessed with it. It's probably 75 of my tv consumption at this point. That's right. Like technique, or or whatever documentaries come out, I'll watch it three or four times. It's crazy. It's crazy how, how it's gotten into my bloodstream, so you know. So the thing is that I'm friends with both of you guys, right, and I'm going to introduce you guys officially, right, but I'm friends with both of you guys and I've had individual conversations with you guys that I find super interesting. I've seen both of you struggle with the. I'm a dad, but I'm also a professional in what I do, right, in your case, bobby, you're a sports psychologist, right? You were a sports psychologist for Cornell, right? You're also a lifelong wrestler, wrestling coach, the whole thing. Am I missing something? Something, yeah, I went to cornell.
Speaker 2:I got my degree from ithaca college and then when I uh was starting, when I was starting out, um, we built a mindset training program for wrestling that was used by the cornell team at the time. Okay, um, so, and just to clarify since we're recording here sports psychologist, that has kind of legal ramifications. So I'm what you call a mental conditioning coach or a sports psychology professional or sports psychology consultant. My master's degree is in sport performance psychology. Okay, perfect, awesome, all right.
Speaker 1:And Jody. Jody's very humble so he's probably going to push back on this, but Jody is what most people in the sport consider the most successful youth coach in the history of the sport.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll jump in and just say it. I mean, I've been a youth coach but growing up in the sport and Jody's trip matter is he's it on the club coaching scene, so it's definitely properly said.
Speaker 1:Right, right, absolutely so. You know, Jody's, you know, coached kids, from little youth kids to the Olympics. I mean, you were, you were in the Olympics just a couple of weeks ago with Spencer Lee is a kid that you coach from, from a little little baby, almost Right, so, yeah, and Jody, the interesting thing about Jody is that, yes, jody has amazing technique, yes, jody's an amazing coach, but what I consider Jody more than it is almost like a kid whisper, right, you know, have you seen that dog whisper situation? Right, it's amazing to see Jody with hundreds of kids in the room and he never really raises his voice, right, like the kids kind of lower their, their, their level so that they could hear him. When he talks real slow, it talks real low and it's just, they kids come back different mentally from a camp, right, yeah, so, so, so again, back to why we're here.
Speaker 1:Um, again, I've had friends with both of you guys. We've had, you know, numerous conversations about you, about performance in the sport. Now, to be clear, this is going to be both of you guys are wrestling guys. But in reality, this is going to translate what we're going to talk about today. I see it, my daughter plays tennis, for example. It translates to every sport, because a sport's a sport, all right. I mean, am I off on that? Performance on a sport, what works for one works for every other sport. Performance is performance, right.
Speaker 1:So, um, and the unique thing is that again, I'm friends with you guys. Both of you guys have little kids. So I've seen you guys kind of both of you kind of struggle with like all right, well, I'm a sports psychologist but I'm a dad. We had that conversation Like so what do I say? I've seen Jody in tournaments. You know, can't help it. You stress out, you know he's, he's, he's, you know cool, common collective Jody. But when his kids are wrestling it's a little bit different. You know what I mean. So it's it's uh, it's a unique thing. So I kind of wanted to talk to you guys about like that unique and have both of you together, I think you know kind of feeding off each other on that, I think. Do you think I'll start with you, bobby. What do you think is the? What's your biggest struggle as a sports psychologist? When you're talking to little Bobby, right, and you're like you know what's that one time that you're like man, what the hell, in what direction do I go here? Is there one?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot, right. So I think that you know, when I'm talking to my son whether it's wrestling or some of the other sports he does, or my daughter too, and you're, you're thinking about those struggles To me, I think it's, it's we know the right thing to say, right, and Jody, you probably experienced this as well, like I know the right thing to say. I've taught it to other people, I've taught it to other parents, I've taught it to other kids hundreds of them, right. But wait a minute, I know I'm saying the wrong thing because my emotions have got the best of me, because that's not what's supposed to come out, and so I think that you know there could have been a lot of different ways to go with that question.
Speaker 2:But, at a simple response, for me, I think what I struggle with the most is when I know my emotions have got the best of me and I'm not necessarily sending, either with the words I'm saying or my body language or whatever it is, the message that I know is the right one that I would coach somebody else to send to their son or daughter, right? And I think, like right, there is probably what it is, and that comes back to your comments of performance. Is performance right? That's me not putting my best performance out as dad because you know, I know I should be calm, I know I should teach him to detach from the result and worry about the foundational things, and you know I know we'll talk about some of that today. But, like man he's wrestling.
Speaker 2:I'm jacked up and I want to win and I'm being honest, right, and there's a balance between kind of authenticity and the struggles that you're properly bringing out that we have as a dad versus the hey like let's get back to the best part of how we can, you know, teach elite performance. Yeah, I think that's probably the shortest way I could say that's my biggest struggle.
Speaker 3:On ability, jody yeah, I agree with that 100. Yeah, you nailed it. Um, yeah, and I guess to add to that for me, like for my kids, is like yeah, and I guess to add to that for me, like for my kids, is like you know, you see what they need to work on. You, you have so much knowledge. But if you try to tell them, they don't want to hear it. But whenever they're ready for it and they say like Dad, can you help me with this position? And they gain so much in that area. But I guess the best way to put it is like you know, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear kind of mentality. And whenever you try to ram it down the throat and they're not ready, you know they just they go the other way and then you get into that frustration mode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was reading an article the other day also that you know it was like a parenting article and and it also said that you should always have somebody that cause your kids at some point are going to kind of push back on on on whatever information you're going to give them, and you should have, like a another parent, that that you trust, or a friend or somebody. Just relay the message for you. Same message. It'll just be a lot more receptive over there, right? So I'm wondering if you guys have is that? Is that an act Is?
Speaker 2:that accurate. Oh, I think that's spot on. I mean, I think Jody's comment and yours that a lot of people know that the messenger is as important as the message. But I think what you're both pointing out too, and, jody, what you're alluding to is the timing is also as important as the message and the messenger, and and having people that aren't just us as dad or mom and dad or whoever, is great.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think one of the things that I try to think about, not just for my kids but all the you know clients I might have, is, you know, stressing who are the people in your life, who are the mentors in your life? Like somebody like Jody, right, but you know, you know, like your son is a mentor to my son, right, right, there are things that Elijah, you know. Like Elijah can teach Bobby. Well, I can say the same thing. He's not going to hear it from me, right, or he's not going to want to do it, but he sees super cool, great model Elijah, and he's like, well, I want to be like that guy, and so it's, it's.
Speaker 2:I think it's so important and it takes some humility as dad, because I, I am like a human being, right, I have an ego. I think that if my son would do everything I would tell him to do, this is where he could go right. But that's a lot of parents make that mistake and a lot of my clients. I've had that conversation and Jody probably seen that countless years over and over again, with wrestling rooms, wrestling dads in particular, but this goes to all sports where it's like.
Speaker 2:For us as dads, as human beings, it does take some level of humility to be like you know what and like. I'll just use that example with Elijah right, I'll let your son, who's in seventh grade, right, teach my something, my son, something that probably in my heart of hearts, if I'm being honest, I'd rather teach him, but it's better for my son to let Elijah do it. So it takes some, you know, accepting. Well, someone else is going to be better at this and if I really want what's best for my child, I need to let them do it Like if Jody's their coach. I need to let the coach coach and go be dad.
Speaker 1:That's hard though it's easy to say, hard to do, yeah, and have you seen yourself in that struggle, jody, kind of in these dual tournaments or whatever, where you kind of have to stand back and be the dad? What's the struggle there like?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's hard. I guess I haven't done that too much yet. You know my daughter's 10, my son's eight, so I am dad and coach in one, for the most part still to this day. So, yeah, it's definitely been a struggle and, like you said, in the heat of the moment you want what's best for your kid, but sometimes maybe um, with the emotions not done Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what's um? Listen, I, I've I've heard a lot from you, um, and I kind of want to hear from both of you just a little bit of how you, how you address it. But it sounds really good on paper, um, but it's it's. It's difficult to execute the kind of remove yourself from the result, right, give your full effort right in a tournament, Give your full effort in practice and completely remove yourself from winning and losing, right, man, that sounds great when you say it. It just makes all the sense in the world. It removes the pressure, right. But how do you get you, get you know again. So confirm, I guess, confirm, you know, I guess that that's correct. And if jody could kind of see you know how, how he makes a how, how, how do we get a kid to understand that and to and to and to make it register, you know?
Speaker 2:yeah, that went first last time. What does jody say?
Speaker 3:yeah, um, I think that, so in practice it's super easy. Like I would rather you know my son, are we talking just about our kids, or are we talking about kids in general.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would much rather a kid like, hey, he's a state champ and I would much rather him go into a practice and lose that practice than win. And that means that they challenge themselves with better partners, you know, whether they're older, bigger, whatever it is. And and our best example and we have a lot, but our best example of that, um, or kind of, who even taught me that as a coach was Jason Nolte. You know, it was the week before super 32 and he went into practice and he got scored on and scored on, and scored on and scored on. And I turned to his dad and I was like what is going on with Jason today? And he was so frustrated sitting in a corner watching.
Speaker 3:And I walked up to Jason, you know, and I'm like what's up today? You know, this is a big week. He's like I just do a couple more positions out before the tournament. I'm like let's turn it on, let's get going. This is a big week. And he and he went down there and he, he, like tech, followed his way through, you know, but he's good at that Like just feeling position. It wasn't about winning and losing at practice and just like getting better. And you know, he taught me that as a coach and like cause, I was always taught like. You want to practice and you, if you can win 2000 to zero, that's what you do at practice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and before I forget this question, just to add on to that. So I saw I don't know if I talked to you about it, but I think I did I sent you, I sent you the video. So there's this MMA fighter I want you to follow MMA Joe. Do you follow it at all or not? Not really. All right, maybe the wrestlers, right? So Holloway, right, this, this holloway kid.
Speaker 1:He's 30 years old now and he's a legend now, right so, but they brought up this old video. He's either 15 or 16 years old and they're interviewing him about winning and losing, right, and man, he, he didn't have much parenting. He admits there, his mom was, you know, heavily into drugs. He didn't really much parenting. He admits there, his mom was heavily into drugs. He didn't really have any parental figures, but the kid was.
Speaker 1:It seemed like he was just kind of born with the ability to understand. So he explains that. He's like I just don't get it. And when you see the article, I don't know if we could put that. Guys, when we do the actual clip, we could put the article, not the article, the clip. But he's like I don't understand why people quit, like if you just give it your effort, your full effort, and you don't quit. At least you're happy with yourself and you're not a loser. He says loser. He says loser right, because he's with a Hawaiian accent. But he's like, if you give it your all, you're not a loser, like I don't get it, like, and he just didn't understand that. So you saying that story, there there is kids that are born with that from, because it seems like they're the adults were learning from the kid, right, like that that's really the way it should be and you're kind of learning. So there are kids that are kind of born with that emotional intelligence. Do you see that often? Or?
Speaker 3:yeah, and again, I I just think everyone's different. That that's my thing as a coach is just identifying at a younger age, or as young as I can, kind of um, I guess how the how the kid reacts. You know, spencer Lee was not that, you know, if he gave up one takedown of practice, he was by himself. He was so upset, like like he would have the best practice of his life, and then he gave up a score, get like he tries something and get caught on his back and his dad would call me. I'm like you know, jody, what happened to Spencer tonight? He looked incredible. Like yeah, he got caught one time, he got taken down, but he looked incredible. He's like he came home and he was ripping and roaring through it like his bedroom and he was so upset and he was ripping and roaring through it like his bedroom and he was so upset. So I think everyone's different, right?
Speaker 1:So there's no real right or wrong?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know about that. Yeah, I think everyone's different and just kind of helping coach them along the way and obviously I think his coaches, even throughout us and his college coaches, and even to this day, have helped him along that I guess progressing. And the same with Nolf. You know, sometimes you had to maybe dial him in the other way, but I don't know if there's a right or wrong way.
Speaker 1:It might be somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think every and again. Maybe that's what made Spencer really really good and, on the other side, that's what made Jason really really good and good at the positions that he is.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, the center yeah, and textbook wise, is there a right? What's the right way? I mean, is textbook NOLF more of the mentality, more like the textbook way, or yeah?
Speaker 2:So no, not really. I mean, Jody's answer really is kind of the textbook way. The way I would kind of maybe say the same thing a different way is there are foundational principles that are right and wrong. Right way is there are foundational principles that are right and wrong. Right, but what really good coaches do, what really do mental conditioning coaches do, and ultimately what really good athletes do is they make it their own right and they find a way to take it work.
Speaker 2:And you can think of like it's kind of a wrestling group here, probably a wrestling audience in some sense. So like you can think of a relatively basic move high crotch, double legs and whatever and there's how many different ways to set it up and how many different ways to execute it and finish it right. And so that would be kind of the analogy I would draw from a wrestling standpoint to this, from a mindset standpoint. Like look, at the end of the day, the ability for a Spencer Lee to go in this direction with how he handles it and a Jason Nolte to go in this direction with how he handles this topic is, I would guess I've never met either of them, so I don't know. So correct me if I'm wrong here, jody, but I would guess their foundational principles are probably pretty similar Things like character, effort, attitude. I'll bet that stuff and please correct me if I'm wrong here, jody, but I'll bet that stuff is the same and then what really really good coaches do which, jody, you are that is they allow people to go take that and then be yourself. Right, it's kind of an old school mentality we were talking about, you know, old school coach before we started recording and like to be like this is the way we do it, right. I'm going to break you down and this is the model, and maybe when we were kids we had coaches like that, right.
Speaker 2:But what has happened today? What has allowed performance to jump levels? And we look at the elite levels, right, and you look at our Olympic team, right. You have guys like a Spencer Lee that might have a certain you know, more hardcore, committed mentality than you could see. Guys like a Kyle Dake that clearly are, you know, have have a different way of doing things, and he's pretty regarded as that.
Speaker 2:And so I think our ability as coaches, as parents, as support systems for elite athletes is like these are the things that are the non-negotiables if you want to be elite, right. But then if you you get to a certain level where, once you've taught those things, things like, how do you not be overcome by the outcomes versus the process? How do you do these other things right, your creativity, et cetera you know, like a Jason Nolfe your example, I think, Jody how do you allow athletes to make those things their own? That's what helps people become really elite. Now, that's where I think the difference is for every single person, and that is the really big challenge for coaches and parents, right?
Speaker 1:So if you were to Jody, if you were to kind of create the best parent, ok for for an athlete, what is it? Is it the standoff? And, you know, not really get too involved. Do you find that the the better athletes have more involved dads? What's too involved is is there is there kind of like a right answer for that? Um, screaming in the corner, obviously not a good thing, right.
Speaker 3:No doubt, yeah, and there's a again, a couple um, like we just talked about non-negotiables, like that you can't do Right, but the cool thing again. Uh, we just talked about non-negotiables. Like that you can't do right, but the cool thing again. Uh, we just finished our 21st year. We've had so many good kids come up through and and a lot of them, you know, they were really good wrestlers, um, before they came into the club, you know. And then they come in, um, but you see a lot of different ways that the dads and the moms handle it. So it's really really cool.
Speaker 3:I think the one thing that that a lot of our dads have is they are strict in a in a good way. They're strict, they're they push, but, um, I guess the one way is that you describe it as you dangle that carrot out in front. You know, I always say, if there's two dads and one makes their kid get up and do 300 pull-ups before school and like that kid, every time it's like I hate this, I hate this, I hate this. And then one dad is like hey, you want to do pull ups together and like goes down there and like, even if they're not doing the pull ups with them, but they're like having fun with their son and encouraging them and like, man, you look really strong today. I think that you know one does 300 pull ups, the other one does 300 pull ups. The one that does it the wrong way Does he ever get successful? He's going to struggle. You know he hates it, where the other one, you know he develops a love for working out or trying to be great and he gets really, really good. So that's a great question.
Speaker 3:We've had a lot of different approaches. No-transcript young age. You know I hear a lot also. The other way is like, oh, my son, he didn't want to go to practice today. Well, you know, did he want to go to school today? Did he want to brush his teeth? Did he want to get up and go to church on Sunday morning with your family? Like just something we do as a family. It's it's hey, we're going to go to practice. You know we're going to enjoy it. We're going to have fun on the way. We're going to work hard. We're going to have fun on the way back. We're going to stop whatever, get ice cream or whatever. It is Like it's this is what we do, like we're going to work hard. So I think that there's so many different ways and approaches and and um and how that's worked out short term and then, most importantly for for our club and the kids in my own kids like long term yeah, and and what textbook wise I mean is it?
Speaker 1:is it the more standoff? Because what I've noticed okay, so you know again, what I bring to this conversation is, like I never wrestled. I played sports, but not at a high level, you know. So I'm figuring this thing out, you know. But I think also I've also noticed a lot of, like, successful wrestling kids and I'm sure it's in other sports too, didn't have, you know, the dads that were in the sport. And what I've kind of registered from that is that I go into this not knowing anything, right, like I know zero about this. So I'm asking the questions. I, you know I'm reaching out because I reached out to Jody. I mean, I didn't run into him, I just reached out. Hey, would you be able to come to my, you know. And then I'm picking your brain and you know, in your case, you know, we connected through a weird way, right, but I'm always picking your brain on stuff. So we're always learning, right, like we're always. I'm open to learn every single thing to become the best.
Speaker 1:If I look at myself as a wrestling dad and even with my daughter, with the tennis, the first tournaments, I think, the first, the second tournament, I went to her tennis was I got thrown out. I think the first, the second tournament I went to her tennis was I got thrown out. So the you know, if I look at myself back then I'm embarrassed of myself. I'm embarrassed of myself. There was one story Elijah was like five, and we had one of the dads has like FU written on his knuckles, gold teeth.
Speaker 1:Amazing guy though Amazing guy, but he looks like, you know, rougher on way rougher on the. I'm probably rougher, but he he's rougher on the edges. And I'm screaming to my son. I'm screaming, rip his head off. In Spanish, I'm gonna rip his head off. And he's like hey, dude, you can't say that I'm like. And it's like I'm like, oh, okay, okay, I'm sorry, I'm embarrassed of what I was when I first started, but you start learning and you start seeing. You know what, what happens and everything like that. So, but textbook, who is the perfect dad, super involved, not involved somewhere in the middle?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would think and, jody, you probably dealt with this a lot and having parents ask you. You know questions as a as a coach for so many years, but one of the things that is frustrating to my clients. What is frustrating to me as I try to answer this question is it's a undisputable fact that every kid is different and what works for this kid is not going to necessarily work for this kid right. Even more frustrating I have two kids, so what works for one of my kids might not work for the other, one of my own kids. Same parents, same DNA same home.
Speaker 2:I've seen that happen too, completely different. So, so you know. So then, if we can accept that, right, assuming we agree that, like, every kid is different, so there isn't going to be this. Here's your answer, right? Here's your one, two, three process follow step A, step B, step C, and then your kid will be successful, because that's what we want, right? And as the world evolves and gets, speeds up, speeds up, social media, whatever it is, instant gratification, all these things that people like, just give me the answer. Right, let me skip to the end. Right? The answer becomes well, you have a process, you have a journey, and it's going to be different every time. So, but I'm not giving you a non-answer, here's what I would say, both of you kind of give me a non-answer.
Speaker 1:I know I'm going to ask you, I know, but like, okay, give me the like the absolutely don't do, because what I want to get from this, if, if, how, what I want to't do, this Don't. How do we better? Thank you, how do we better the sport you know with this interview? So what are you saying?
Speaker 2:So here's here's and, by the way, that's one of the big frustrations sometimes with like a sports psychology profession. My mentor, greg Shelley, was always so great about identifying the difference between kind of research and applied sports psychology, and I think he is one of the best in the world at the at the ladder the applied. That's why he's so helpful to athletes. And so Cornell now. Yes, wrestling Well, he's the senior director of sports leadership and mental conditioning at Cornell university athletics. Okay so, but the wrestling team is on that, but he and I think he's an Iowa guy actually to Jody's he did like him, but uh, but uh, but um.
Speaker 2:The reason I bring that up is is your, your feed? Your response is appropriate, right, it's like look, okay, great, if I accept that. Like, how does that help me? What do I do? And I think in your story is one of the most important responses. That's like look the common denominator on coaches or parents that are helping that wrestling, dad or mom that's watching this is like okay, what do I do?
Speaker 2:Well, what you have to do is have a willingness to learn. You have to have a willingness to be aware and change and say, okay, I did something at the beginning of my kid's career that I recognized, wasn't better. You want to constantly reach out, like myself. I'm a self-example. I wrestled, my dad was a wrestler. Okay, I coached wrestling for a very, very long time and then I got a degree in sport performance psychology.
Speaker 2:So there is a possibility that somebody with that kind of back of their baseball card is like I don't need any help, right, I got it. I know what I'm doing. I'm going to help my son be successful. So that would be my answer to you as first is like that's the worst thing you can do. Elite mindsets. Whether answer to you is first is like that's the worst thing you can do. Elite mindsets. Whether it's as a parent or a business professional, an athlete, whatever it is, one of the common denominators is they're trying to evolve and get better every day. So what I would say to that wrestling dad is if you're doing the same things in a year that you're doing now, you're probably not doing what's best for your kid.
Speaker 1:So like go learn go Okay, but let talk about since. Okay, so screaming during a match, do it, don't do it.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I mean yeah, I would say definitely don't do it. I guess if you're trying to get your son's attention, like yelling, and then calmly you know, but if it's just screaming it, yeah, it's not helping for sure.
Speaker 1:So the, the, the, the, the, the most famous get up Right when they're at bottom. You know, no, no. So if it's not technical Instruction, it does absolutely no good and mostly harm. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2:I think it depends. That's always going to be kind of a qualifier, but, like, look here's, here's what I say. Screaming in general, it comes back to kind of the message or the message, right, first of all, are you a coach? Like, are you Jody coaching his son? And he's a coach? Well, you probably have to scream a couple of times, right, because he has to hear you, because he's wrestling and he's a headgear on. There's hundreds of people watching.
Speaker 2:So it's not that like screaming is bad, but it's more like, right, this is one of my things. They're like I, I, every sport has their equivalents, like baseball, I've always told this story. Like the third base coach like, be a hitter, what do you think the kid is trying to do? Like yell something helpful, right, so it's, it's screaming. You know, I don't know it depends on the kid, but what are you screaming and why are you screaming it? Right?
Speaker 2:That would be the kinds of things I would say that parents need to be evaluating, right, you might have a kid like this isn't my son, he's only five, so I haven't had this really experience yet, but, like, I've had kids I've coached that have been like hey, coach, I don't want you to yell at me during the match. I can't hear you. It kind of just distracts me and like okay, so the lesson is one open up that communication with your son or athlete can tell you what they want, empower them to tell you what they want and then listen. But you might also have ones like yo. I need you to get after me during a match because it motivates me, okay. So I think that it's really.
Speaker 3:You've seen that too, jody kind of both yeah I don't want it some kids need it I think the the age level is um very important for me as a coach. Like so, my son is eight, you know seven. Last year we competed and stuff, so so, um, trying to help him through a match sometimes, you know, is maybe more important, but I don't know. The way I look at it is like if I'm yelling technical things in a match, I haven't done my prep, my job as a coach in practice.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:Good point you got to coach during practice out there. They have to learn you know and to think from themselves. And if you're always yelling instructions, typically you're a second behind already anyway, so I'll yell you know things like hey, keep believing yourself. Like hey, you can do this, I you know, like that.
Speaker 1:So positive you're going to yell anything. I guess the, the, the, the message would be if you're not yelling positive stuff, just kind of shut up a little bit right, like just you're not yelling positive stuff, just kind of shut up a little bit right, like just you're there to support them, you're there to to to. If they need a little bit of a wind in their sails, you're. You're the wind in their sails. Maybe you're like hey, wake up. You know you're a little, you know something like that I think positive is important.
Speaker 2:But you also touched on your questions like what are the don'ts like? One of the other big don'ts I see is, like you know, don't, like, don't make it about you, right? I've seen a lot of clients and parents who are clearly living their dreams, desires, trying to repeat, fix their failures, whatever it is, through their child, and that is definitely one of the don'ts that people need to be self-aware on. And you know, I was just thinking, I listened to both of you and it's like look, that kid's the wrestler, right. So you're not helping them by putting whatever you're bringing to the table on. And like you run a club. You know, we've all seen wrestling.
Speaker 2:Dads are kind of notorious for this, right, like, wrestling is a tough sport. There's one champ, right, 10 weight classes if you're talking to college, right. So like, there's mostly people who lost. If you're in this sport, you've been in this sport, right. And it my father, right. My father wrestled. You bring up wrestling. He wrestled a player, he wrestled a Cornell. He will tell you about this national semifinals loss he had in high school and how he still can't sleep and he's about you know, and he's in his seventies, right. So like this is the wrestling dad culture, and that is definitely one of the don'ts.
Speaker 2:Realize, like you want to foster a love of the sport, kind of like Jody's story a few minutes ago about the early morning pull-ups like you want them to have fun. So, you know, it gave you kind of more direct like what do we do? Type things. You want to make sure that they have something sustainable that you can build. Hard work, because they're going to have to work really, really hard. They're going to be successful at this and, by the way, that goes for anything in life. So you got to really kind of help them enjoy it.
Speaker 2:And if you're screaming at them right, who likes being screamed at? And I think that that's, you know, definitely one of the things that parents, dads in particular, want to be aware of is like, okay, this is what I wish I did. I wish I could go and I'll speak for myself Like I wish I could go back in time, work harder, be more committed, have higher character during my middle school, high school years and then see what I could have been Right. If I bring that to either of my kids, I'm setting them up for failure because I'm putting myself on it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the pushing the kid is interesting too, because you know my, my dad, my dad was an amazing father, right Like I'm. This is nowhere near a complaint. Still, my best friend coached all my little league basketball games. He didn know shit about basketball. He, looking back now, he he had no business coaching any of those, any of those games. He knew absolutely nothing about. You know about, about, about coaching. But he just wanted to be there, wanted to be my coach, the whole situation. But my dad never really pushed me at all. It's awesome.
Speaker 1:I pushed myself right, pushed myself to be the best man. I was obsessed with it, the whole situation. But he's watching now like I'm what I'm doing with my kids. And he came to me the other man. I was obsessed with it, the whole situation. But he's watching now like I'm what I'm doing with my kids. And he came to me the other day. He's like man, you know what like, and I wish I would have. I wish I would have pushed you more. I wish I would have known what I know now, what I'm seeing you do now.
Speaker 1:Um, I think it would have made. It made a big difference in your life and the whole situation. I'm like. I'm like yeah, did I mean you didn't know? He's like no, I really didn't Like he's talking to me like just regular conversation, like no, I had no idea, no idea that this world of, like you know, expecting the best from your kid, giving them all the tools to succeed, and I just came from Cuba I'm just worried about putting food on the table, you know, it's like he had no idea, so no idea.
Speaker 1:So that really kind of registered with me more like I was like man, you know what it's kind of like. You know it's almost my responsibility as a father to to push with every not push. And here's where it gets interesting. Right, like pushing with it positively, right, like don't put too much pressure but give all the tools. So I guess really I kind of answered it to myself, so it's not really pushing, it's really, hey, give all the tools. So I guess really I kind of answered it to myself, so it's not really pushing it's really he'd give all the tools, give positive reinforcement and model.
Speaker 2:I mean I would say I don't know your dad, but I would challenge him a little bit in that comment to say I'll bet coming from Cuba being worried about putting food on the table and yeah, you had some hard work, you had some high character.
Speaker 2:that and that's what his parents and his coaches we need to think a lot about. Like we're saying so much with so much more than just what we're saying with our words. So just because he might not have done some of the things you're doing for your kids doesn't mean he didn't lay out for you. This is a blueprint you can follow.
Speaker 1:But it didn't really register at that age, right? You know I was. You know, again, kids are born different. I was always born with, with. Really, as a kid, I always wanted to be rich and I always wanted. You know, it was all like I want to be successful. It was just born inside of me, right? So not everybody's like that and some people need to be pushed, and I'm assuming it's the same thing with athletics. So here's another very controversial subject in the sport, or in any sport, right, and you hear it all the time from parents hey, it doesn't matter if you win 6U, 8u, 10u, 12u, whatever. A college coach is not going to care if you won Tulsa Nationals, all situation. Now here's the problem. I read and Will Bassett is not a poet or an author, but he wrote a hell of an article Do you read that article that he wrote on that? Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we talk about stuff all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he, he, so I'll bring you up to date on the on that article. He's like, man, I don't, I don't really believe that whole. Well, it doesn't matter, oh, you read it right. So it's like so I'll bring the audience in on, uh, on it.
Speaker 1:So this gentleman, um, arguably one of the most successful dads, you know, uh, you know, out there, um, you know, uh, definitely one of them. Uh, you know, and he, he basically mentions well, why, why doesn't it matter if they win in 6U or 8U or 10U, just because a college coach? So are you telling him hey, get bad grades in elementary, a college recruit, you know, a college admissions is not going to care if you got a C in, you know, in third grade or fourth grade or whatever. So why lower the standards onto who doesn't really matter, right? So that kind of reprogrammed my brain a little bit like, wait a second, you know. So I would love your guys' take on that, you know, like where is. And again, and I've talked to you enough about the sports psychology part where you kind of want to take that pressure off, right, but how much of that pressure do you do you take off? Right, so it's, it's yeah. So if you could kind of elaborate on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll, I'll try to go quick and see what Jody thinks about this, but and maybe add some other things. But look, at the end of the day, on this topic of like a six, you know six U Tulsa, right Like. Like you know, my five-year-old won a state title, right Like. Is he going to get a division one scholarship out of that? Unlikely, not, you know. So it's the. The balance that we're looking for is you want them to have some success and you want them to have some fun. It's fun to win success and you want them to have some fun. It's fun to win, and it's okay to say that out loud. And there is so much of this surrendering the result, and the good part of that is releasing the pressure. I'm happy to talk more about that. But what we have to balance on is I think that that article brings up a good point when making the connection to grades right. We want them to learn the right way to do things.
Speaker 1:I think it might be a habit right. Creating strong habits now is really what he said Winning habits is what he said.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's what I think. Look, it's not fair or realistic to say to an athlete create these winning habits for a decade as a child who just wants dessert today, right, that's the way their brains work, but the reward is out there in a decade in a Division I scholarship, which most of these parents are really thinking about. When it comes down to like, what's the number one goal for the parents? Yes, they want their kids to be successful and happy, but, like, ultimately, they're trying to get their kid to the next level and that's not wrong. But so I think what it becomes down to is a balance of like look, you need to have enough success that it's fun, which can be a six, you eight, you, tulsa win, but you also need to experience enough failure, right, jody's point? Like in practice, if you're coming in and you're not losing in practice. But you also need to learn.
Speaker 2:One of those winning habits is you need to challenge yourself, which means you need to seek out failure, because that's how you push your limits. So I think there's a real balance going on around. As parents, you want them to be having some fun and some success. It's part of long-term motivation. It's part of creating genuine, sustainable enjoyment. And then you also want to put things in perspective. Right, you're not the king of the world because you won six year Tulsa, and that's that's what I think we're looking for. I can go forever on that, but, jody, what do you think?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think. Um, I guess as a wrestling coach, that's my job to help them find success. So if I'm going to say it's not important, then what am I doing as a coach, right?
Speaker 2:Why am I here, right yeah?
Speaker 3:I have to help them kind of find success, and winning is a part of that. However, you go to the 6U or even 8U, and if it's all about winning, that's where the problem comes in. So I always want our kids in the ball game. Hey, if you're placing, if you're in that quarterfinal match, if you're, you know, in that ball game you're, you're doing what? Well, again, we talked about there's only one champ. So if it's only, hey, you got second and you're horrible at six, six, you, you know that's not gonna go very far.
Speaker 3:Um, if it's all about winning, again and you don't let your kid eat, for you know, two weeks straight, and now, every single practice is about a number on a scale. It's not did you get better at finishing? It's not. Did you get better at getting off the bottom? It's a number on the scale, that's all the practice is about. What did you weigh at? You know what did you weigh in the morning? It's not about getting a morning workout, you know, before school, it's all about what did you weigh this morning? That's where the trouble comes in.
Speaker 3:So, um, whenever it's only about first place, you know, and and even placing at some of those tournaments like that's where the trouble comes in, like so some kids they cut so much weight that by the time they're in high school they don't want to cut weight anymore. They hate that process, sport, they hate that part of it. And then it's, it's important maybe to do it more um, you know, smarter, but more. And by that time you know young kids have eating disorders. Uh, you know, with wrestling. So it's again. It's like everything we've talked about this morning. So it's, it's so cool to talk about this stuff because every single kid, you know, is different. They all go about it different ways. But I'll tell you what 99% of the kids you know they um, hate cutting weight, um, and if you do it too much early, you know it, it hurts them later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's, that was one of the questions too. So what's like the? I guess the psychological part, because what I've also noticed, what I've seen, is that these heavy cutters, right that, depend on cutting to win. If there's ever a circumstance where they can't cut, it's almost like they've they. Psychologically. They put themselves like well, I'm not cutting. Where they can't cut, it's almost like they've they. Psychologically. They put themselves like well, I'm not cutting, I can't win. And I've seen some parents say she's like well, he can't cut this much weight, so we're not going to compete. Right, right, I'm like so wait a second, so if he's not cutting 10, 15 pounds, you won't even take him to the tournament. Right, like what does that put in the in the kid's head? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's one question in there. I want to come back to ask Jody in a bit, but I wrote it down, I won't forget it. But to answer your question, look, from the mindset standpoint.
Speaker 2:There's a couple of things there I worry about. First is on the weight cutting topic, just like, look, this is part of the fabric of our sport. I think our sport's evolving and dealing with it, you know, as best it can. But, like, at the end of the day, for younger kids, if, if our goal is to, you know, teach them some principles and have them have long-term sustainability, which requires some fun and enjoyment, I w I would worry, you know, when I've been a youth coach, like I worry about, okay, we're cutting weight, like there is, but but then there's a time where, like, it is part of the sport as you get older and so the balance becomes again every kid's different. But like, when do you introduce it? How much do you introduce it? So that's one of my concerns.
Speaker 2:But the other is is, you know what you're bringing up, which gets to a couple of different things. One is you know, shielding our kids from failure is one of to cutting. Or, hey, we want to qualify for the state tournament. This qualifier is easier and this qualifier like I've had that conversation with parents, whether as a coach or a you know, mental conditioning coach, and I'm like what are you teaching your kid for life? But like, we're going to go take the easier track here, so that that kind of ties into that. But at the end of the day, if your success is tied to something other than your ability to perform work, right, that's going to, that's going to have a direct you know you keep asking what's the textbook that's going to have a direct negative impact on your confidence. Because now it's not about my performance, it's not about the things I can control, right, it's about how much do I weigh or how much does my opponent weigh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it goes the other way too, right. Right, like you have a kid who's really really struggling and maybe they don't love the sport anymore and um, taking them a couple weeks in a row where they can find success and they can win a big trophy and like, yeah, so it's cool, like navigating through everyone's career. Some kids get it really really good early. Some kids like it really struggles, and we've had that. You know, we've had a kid who never placed at the pennsylvania youth state tournament. Um, as a youth, never placed and then by his senior year he was a pennsylvania youth state tournament. Um, as a youth, never placed, and then by his senior year he was a pennsylvania most outstanding wrestler. Wow, got a scholarship to iowa. So it's crazy how that works. Like max mirror, we should shout him out, right, yeah they get it.
Speaker 3:They get it um yeah yeah, and they start working, working, working and it just doesn't click, you know. And then they start becoming all in and, you know, have so much success later.
Speaker 1:So everyone's different kind of yeah, and it leads me to my my other question, right, so I saw I think it was a 60 minutes a piece on, um, it was an African-American, uh, hockey player, right? Um, the they're interviewing the dad and he said one thing that I met that must've been 10 years ago, that I saw that and it always stuck with me. Right, he's like, you know, I pushed my son and I pushed my son and I pushed my son and it was my dream until and I always told him it was my dream, until one day it had to be his dream. Right, there has to be a day where our hey man, you know, and I and I talked to my son all the time like, hey man, it's coming close to the point where you know, and I and I talked to my son all the time like, hey man, it's coming close to the point where you know, it's not about daddy pushing you, it's about you, you know. And luckily we are making that transition, you know, and everything I have.
Speaker 1:But that was one thing that really scared me, I'm like, cause I see a lot of kids drop off during puberty and stuff, and he's not there yet as far as the puberty is concerned. But and that's where you know, and I wonder if there's like a whole thing about that. But you know, yeah, there's a point where we have to. If we're doing it right and tell me if I'm crazy right, if we're doing it right, we got to come kind of completely step away and and is, is there an age for that? That? You see, or is everybody different, or or or and I'm sure everybody is different yeah, like a textbook rule on that?
Speaker 2:There's not, it is. But you're spot on. And it's very similar to Jody's comment a few minutes ago about how you know if you've done your job. When they're performing right, you're just watching, right, like Coach K has a great group. Duke basketball coach has a great quote about this If we've done our job, come tournament time, we're spectators, right, kind of.
Speaker 2:My answer to you is like parents, look, yes, everybody's different. That's going to be the answer to a lot of these things and that can be sometimes frustrating, but the reality is, if you've done your job at some point in their journey, right, like, like, no, no athletes going to go be elite if their mom or dad is the main source of their motivation, eventually they have to take ownership of their craft, right, um, when and where? Usually after puberty. Usually, no, no, I bet. I mean I would guess I've never met spencer lee, but he looks to me like the kind of guy who probably showed up owning it, wanting it, you know, but at some point his parents introduced him to sports. I mean that. What do you think, jody?
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean I, I would, I guess, generally say I see it around middle school just because, um, that's where kids, you know, they start taking interest in girls and they start coming, you know, like drugs, alcohol, more introduced in their life at school. So I, that's where I see a big, big change, like if kids like they could be really, really, really good, you know, young, and then you know they get to middle school and it like they take different paths, like and that's what I say about spencer, all the time, like he has stayed on path, like he has said from his from the youngest age that I met him like I want to be an olympian, you know, I want to be a gold medalist, all right, and I know he didn't achieve that, um, but he has never got off path with a girl with a party, with drugs, with alcohol, with an injury. Every he got boom, like he got hurt, back on, back on, you know, and you see that so many times. And and Mike Nolfe told me this is Jason's father One time he was like Jody, I knew it was time to step away.
Speaker 3:You know, when he was in middle school he's like I, just I sat on the side and I would just micromanage everything he did, you know, it didn't matter how much good he did, you know, and he's like I realized that one day, you know, and he's like I knew I had to step away and it's his career, and like from then I just dropped him off. I'd go get something to eat, I wouldn't come in practice, you know. And then you know on the way home, how'd you do? And this is another awesome piece of advice I got, um, you know, two minutes of practice. Know you get in a car, two minutes, how to go, or hey, you need to work on this or that and then nothing else. So no, no kid wants to go to practice, the whole practice. You know I'm putting their heart and soul in it. And then the whole way home get, you know, you know micromanage of everything that they could have done better. You know they don't want to go to practice and your relationship, kind of um, changes with them.
Speaker 2:So so yeah yeah, can I ask you a question on that? Yeah, so kind of back to that topic and the little bit of like having success later and the fun of winning a little bit. Jody, you've actually shared with me something that I think Jody told you, but I want to ask you a question. So in the world of sports, psychology, right, extrinsic rewards or certain things right, it's like a medal.
Speaker 2:So it's like a medal right, or you know, the cake or the chocolate or the ice cream or whatever it is right. And when you're studying motivation, you learn like an extrinsic reward is not something that's going to be like long-term sustainable. Now, the younger your kids go and this is something that I didn't learn in grad school, something the younger your kids go, and this is something that I didn't learn in grad school. It was something I learned as a parent, as a dad right, like you better use those extrinsic rewards because you're going to get your kids to do stuff Right. So I'm curious what you would have to say kind of on this topic and some that we've just been talking about, like I would have said as coming out of grad school, like straight letter of the law, sports, psych stuff If I was advising myself as a dad right, like no, make it about things that are 100% within your control and control the controllables and these principles, and like that's the way to build a champion, right?
Speaker 2:But then the very first wrestling tournament my son ever went to, which was last season, he got beaten around Robin. He got beaten around Robin, there's four kids in it and he was like freaking out. And he was like I'm not wrestling anymore, I'm never wrestling. I was like hey, bud, you know you, you win this next one, you get a medal. And he was like what, like I get a what? He didn't care what color it was, you know it was four years old at the time and he just was like that's awesome. And that was when we had that conversation. So, jody, like I'm just curious how you've seen that, because there's clearly a balance that we need to find as coaches and parents where it's like look he, um and the, the way it came up that, you know jody was at my house and you know I have elijah's, like you know, uh, tulsa, eagles and everything, and he was, you know, showing his son and everything like that.
Speaker 1:I'm, like, you know, kind of step jody. I said I'm jody, what do you think about that man? Like what, what? Um, you know this whole thing and and you're pushing because when elijah first started in in in the sport, um, he hated wrestling the first six months. He cried the entire six months, like to a point where I'm like, dude, this is not for him, like you know. But I also realized, well, at least more than I realized, the sport kind of sucks, like it's a hard sport, not everybody's gonna like it at the beginning.
Speaker 1:So that reward was after every practice was a little car, like a little hot wheels car. So I would buy a bunch of them and then if you don't cry at practice or if you do this or you do that, you know I'll get you a little car. I mean, my son had an iPhone at six years old because I was like, well, if you beat this kid at practice, right, just wanted to get him. Because there was a kid who was really beating his ass at practice Like one of those practice bullies and I'm like if you beat this kid I'll get you a phone. He's like, really dude, I didn't think ever.
Speaker 1:Once you said it you had absolutely impossible, it was gonna happen. Right, and it it did happen and I had to get him the phone. You know what I mean. So it was, it was a. It was a horrible thing to have a six-year-old with a phone, but I got him through through that hump. So, yeah, the the jody. I guess if you could elaborate on the trophy hunting and and how much of that is is recommended and not and, and you know, because it serves as motor, I'll let you answer because go ahead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, great question and I get. I. I think the the answer is to me there is no real answer. Like again, like some kids, like, for example, my son he went to your house and now like it's in his mind that he wants an eagle in the worst way. So is that a bad thing? No, I think that's an awesome thing. You know now, if it's me saying like over and over and over that I want an eagle for him.
Speaker 3:That's a good point yeah, so, um, but I know I, I do think that it's, it's really really cool and I think that that's. You know. Sometimes, like kids will play football all season long and football is a really, really fun sport. Um, but I know that we get a lot of kids that come to wrestling you know from football and they're like wait, you can, you know, because football you play all season long, you know, and you win maybe get a trophy yeah and at the end you may have a sports, you know banquet or whatever, and they give you a little trophy or a medal, like they're like, wait, wrestling.
Speaker 3:You can get a trophy or a medal every single weekend. You can keep trying, like, and they love that. So I think that's really really cool, um, to kind of like keep pushing them and again, um, keep dangling that carrot in front of them. You know, so, um, and, and yeah, it's the same way. If it's um, hey, if you win this tournament, I'll buy you this. That's where it gets to be tricky, because now it becomes all about winning and losing at a young age. And and that's where you sometimes, like a dad, will get so mad at their kid who just wrestled incredible, you know and they don't.
Speaker 3:maybe they don't know even how good the kid is, you know, but they lost and it's. You got to work harder, you got to do this, you got to do that, and then they win and they don't do anything. They score one point, you know, and they kind of stall and take injury time and all the bad things, but they won and everyone's showering with love, grandma's over there, you won, you know. So when it's only about winning and losing again we talked about this earlier it gets to be tricky there, um but and how about?
Speaker 1:how about? Um? So, yeah, there's always a carrot and there's always has to be motivation to move forward and what? What I've, what I've learned from both of you guys, in reality has been um, you know, hey, it really doesn't matter what, every tournament is really a preparation for the next tournament, right? So if you go to vac, and it might be, you know super 32 and then, or super 32, whatever, so every, don't look at the results on that one, look at as preparation for the next one, right? So? And that's really why I like duels, right?
Speaker 1:So, whoever's not you know a wrestling, a parent, duels is where you know these, these teams. You get picked for an Ohio team, where you get picked for a Pennsylvania team, and and you, you meet somewhere and then this team, it's really an all-star team versus all-star team, right, and you compete against other teams. But the reason why I like it and that's kind of where my next question is is it takes away the first place, second place, third place thing. It's more like, hey, who do I have in my bracket that I'm going to wrestle? So it transfers the I'm going to win at first place, second, third place to I'm going to wrestle this kid and I want to beat this kid, going to beat this kid. So you know, if you could talk a little bit about that, like you know.
Speaker 1:So you're not now you're transferring the energy towards, you know, not trophy hunting, but let's go after the best kids, right, like hey man, you know and writing, you know, and I know we've done that in my house, you know, I've done it with my daughter, I've done it with, with, with my son. There's people's, there's people's names on our wall and we've scratched out a bunch of them, right, and there's a bunch of them that have not been scratched out. You know what I mean. So that, I think, is again from the novice, from just following my gut, that's the healthiest way, right, like, let's go after the best kids, like you know. And look, I've had it where we go after that best kid and he gets his ass kicked. Then the next time it's like two points away. Then the next time he beats him or he loses by one to a kid that he's not even off the charts. How does that work, jody? Is that something you do? Also, are we chasing lions or chasing kids?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question. Again, my kids are young enough that maybe we haven't gotten into that. It's really, really young and pure to their age. Like it's just about getting better. And they put in an amazing summer and again, this is going to sound so cheesy, but like they have so many resources here and just in the state, you know, and, and the coaches that are the kids that I've coached they, they're surrounded with so many good people that I just truly want them to love it and if they do, that means they're going to come to practice every day with a smile on their face and they're going to get so much better, Like, so I don't know, the the doors is tricky for me, you know, and I'll be honest, I can't stand those.
Speaker 3:I hate them. Um, and this is too because I think that kids, hey, you lose the first match, and again, now this is more older, okay, so this is older. You start to get. You lose the first match, it's okay. Well, guess what? It's not. Okay. You didn't warm up the right way, you didn't prepare, you didn't eat right after weigh-ins and now you're in a concy bracket, so you can't be a world team member, You're? You didn't do things right. You know where duels is like. Oh don't worry, you get back there, get there next. You know so at a young age. I think it's really valuable. And then I put duels together for years and years and years and it's, they're hard right. So I have a bad taste in my mouth of you. Know. We're putting duels and then someone gets sick the first, or the next.
Speaker 1:Oh, as an organizer, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. I mean, it's an absolute nightmare.
Speaker 3:They're hard, hard, hard. Yeah, they are fun to do, there's a lot of value in them. But as you get older they're tricky, you know, because sometimes you can not do well and it's just like, oh, next time and I've seen that a lot from some of our kids Like they'll go to duels and they'll go seven and two, they'll lose the first two and then they'll get on a roll. Well, sorry, you're in the concierge. You got to be ready from the first one in an individual tournament.
Speaker 1:so I think going both ways is important, but um they're saying, it takes off the most important pressure that you need for the individual basically learning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that learning is important. So that pressure again at a young age is good, you know to take that pressure off.
Speaker 1:It's like everything else. It's a balance, right yeah?
Speaker 3:absolutely. It's a balance. I think that's cool, like we've talked for an hour and it's so cool. I can talk for 12 more hours and listen. You know and learn too, but I think it's just such a feel and just treating kids good, loving them.
Speaker 2:you know if they win, if they lose love them and you know how do we get better you know, next step how do we get better?
Speaker 3:do we got to get stronger? Do we got to get more flexible? Do we got to get better? At bottom, like what's the next thing? So yeah, and that's that's really, though, to me, like, can you grind?
Speaker 1:can you grind day after day, falling in love with how hard this sport is, and that's one thing I've seen. I've seen both my kids make my daughter you know I don't want to. I mean she, they're practicing in the sun like I. I I was talking yesterday on if if people really knew what these kids put into it, the stuff that they sacrifice, the events, the birthday parties, the, the regular normal life, right, that they miss, right, look, I always say, don't feel too bad for them because they're traveling the country and they're with their buddies and like let's not get carried away either. You know what I mean. So, and and and in my kids, you know, uh, uh, example, I mean he's with all his friends and we're, and we really go out of our way, um, to make sure that you know. And and my buddy, bachman, which you know, same thing as Bassett, I consider him one of the most successful like wrestling dads, right, I mean both. They're both of his kids. The Bachman brothers are at in Amman, jordan, right now competing at worlds. Yeah, right, you know, and he's, he's always big on and he's probably going to hate that I'm bringing him up. He's, he's like he. He's like he's the behind the scenes guy. He doesn't like to be talked about. But he's, you know, he's work hard, play hard man, and we always as a group and you know, and, and you know our group is a lot of Florida, a lot of Pennsylvania guys we always get together all around the country and stuff, and it's like man, we got to make sure the kids are having fun.
Speaker 1:You know, and I think that really early, and the reason why you know Miami wrestling club even exists is because I understood that. I understood that I need to be very what, since I don't know wrestling? I don't know anything. One thing I do know is how to get people together and and and recruit and that type of stuff. And I needed to make sure I recruited the best kids to be around my best not best wrestlers, best kids, right, yeah, be around good people, be around a healthy environment. And another reason why the club exists is I wanted to have the ability to get rid of it. There's a bad apple, and that's another thing. But what I could add to that, feeding off on Bachman he's always saying it work hard, play hard is that I go out of my way to make sure that when we go to a tournament, right, we leave some time for fun, right, and Jody, we've, we've had some of that together. We've been, you know, on the boat and we've been, you know, hanging out and stuff like that. So that's a big, big, big deal for us. You know what I mean. And even that we just did a camp right now, and it was. We did all the work in the morning and the rest of the day the kids were on the beach, they were fishing. There were a whole situation, right.
Speaker 1:So who you surround yourself by in any sport, I think is extreme. It's extremely important, right. If there's one bad kid that doesn't want to be there, right, that's another thing. So there's, you know, five teammates, 10 teammates, teammates, and one of them doesn't want to be there, and it's always you know the negative and this, and that you know that's, that's, that's a bad thing. I don't even have to ask you that I mean that's, that's a, that's, that's a bad thing. And and just making sure that you find the fun in it, don't make it a job, you know, don't make it. Yes, you have to work because life is is work and life is, and and you know, like you said a little while ago, you know winning, or you said, winning is fun, right? And people ask me all the time oh, does your kids like the sport? I'm like, yeah, but you kind of like anything you win in, right, I mean it could be pencil fighting. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:A lot of the young people don't know what pencil fighting is, but pencil fighting was a big thing in our day, right? Did they have pencil fighting in Pennsylvania back in the days, Like where you, where you, you snapped the pencil and you break you? Didn't have that up there.
Speaker 1:We didn't have that in Jersey oh really, you got a pencil, miami, you snap the pencil and the pencil snaps in half and you know you win. But but yeah, if you're whatever you're good at you're, you're going to be, you know. So, um, so okay, so I I kind of touched up on what I considered the, on both of my kids, the most difficult stage period, right the beginning, right that very, very beginning. If we're talking to somebody right now that has and I get calls all the time because it's my number on the instagram and it's all, so I get people all. Hey, my kid is they're calling right now. Yeah, my kid is, you know, three years old, four years old, right, and he and he wants to, you know, start wrestling or whatever, right. So I can tell you my experience both of my kids I don't know, I don't know you guys being so much around the sport that it might have been a little different, different, but neither one of my kids wanted to play their sport at the beginning and they all played different sports soccer, this, and that. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So, but you know, I go back to a funny interview. So I saw and I would joke around, I would joke around with my kids about this. Like there was a Johnny Hendricks remember Johnny Hendricks back in the days. So they interviewed his dad and his dad is like a real, you know, you know country accent. He's like, yeah, I told johnny, you know they're asking him like hey, you know, how'd you, how'd you get him into the sport he go. I told johnny, real early in life he had two choices he's either gonna wrestle or he's gonna wrestle, right, so those, so you know, and I would joke around, I would joke around about that. I like you got two choices. You got tennis, you got tennis, you know. But, that being said, my wife played tennis her whole life. So my daughter really had that, you know, tennis or tennis. There was really two choices for her, right, in my case, we started wrestling because of the jujitsu.
Speaker 1:But the whole point is this Neither one of them really liked the sport at the beginning, right? So would I be giving unhealthy advice, right? Not being a sports psychologist, not being a legendary coach? You know saying, you know kind of force them until they like it. You know, like, like is that because it kind of worked for both of my kids. Now they're both madly in love with the sport. It's who they are, it's what they love, it's what they do, you know.
Speaker 1:But yeah, they both cried. I mean, elijah, worse, my son cried six months straight. I mean it got to the point where I called my dad. I'm like, dude, I can't do this anymore. Like I can't do this anymore. He would fucking ask me in the. He would ask me in the morning hey, what are we doing today? And I'll be.
Speaker 1:We got wrestling practice and he would start crying from the morning and then, and then I would pick him up from school and he would cry right the whole way to practice. And I'm like and then I call my dad and I go, I can't do this anymore. Like I can't, like I can't, I can't take it. And there was one day that I hugged him at practice and I felt his little heart just beating out of his chest and I'm like, oh my God, what am I torturing? My kid and my dad's like? I get it, but you're too far into it now. Right, like you, you quit. Now you're teaching him to quit, right. And luckily, that kid for the iPhone happened like two weeks after and everything turned around after that. You know that iPhone got me through everything.
Speaker 1:Thank you, steve Jobs. Yeah, steve Jobs, there you. So the question is I'm on my. Is that bad advice saying, hey guys, you know, like you know? Back to the hey, they brush their teeth, they do this, they do that, you know, um is, is that healthy? Or what do we do to that man?
Speaker 2:I would say it's not bad advice, it's not good advice that I would say, right like yes and no, yeah, I mean a lot of these things come down to what I have said to all parents who hire me, where it's, like every kid's different, so I don't know, until I talk to your kid, anything right Like so, other than some basic foundational principles. So, look for your kids, that worked right. But also, look, what I would say is, if your kid's crying all the time and they're unhappy, look, you have a choice as a parent, ultimately crying all the time and they're unhappy, look, you have a choice as a parent, ultimately like that's a, that's a God-given choice of like, am I going to do this, am I going to do that Like, as long as you're not doing this harming your child, then then okay, fine. But but here's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:What probably you were also doing at the same time that you may not remember were some things that were having a very positive influence, cause it's unlikely that, whether it was that extrinsic reward of the iPhone probably not that, it's probably the time with dad, it's the there's probably other experiences you were having that were fostering some positive feelings for Elijah at the time, right that you probably were like. We always remember the worst part, right? Wrestlers remember their losses, right. So we remember our kid crying, right? So look at the end of the day, if your kid hates, should you make them do? It depends on the kid.
Speaker 1:Well, I saw it as self-defense. I'm like, look, you're gonna be a man, you gotta solve, you gotta. And that's how this whole thing started. I didn't wrestle, so I was like, hey, this is self-defense, you got to be a man. I was thinking you know, 300 warrior, it is what it is, you're gonna fight, you know. That that's what my mindset was, you know. So that's what got me kind of through it. And then my dad got me through the final stage of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but like, had I known you, then I would have said like, well, why is he crying?
Speaker 1:right, because he's crying every second of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but what does he hate about it? Right, he's kicked everything Because he's the youngest one, like Bobby goes through that, right? So it's like look the wrestling in the context that we're talking about it, right, because we're talking about parents trying to get their kids into wrestling and then what it's a vessel for teaching them life skills, right, like, how many are going to be? Spencer, lee, jason, all some of these names we came up, almost none, right? And if you go into it with that mentality, that that's why we're doing it If that was what you were doing, then I would have told you stop, like, find something else.
Speaker 1:But if you were doing it because and you would be giving me good advice If I would've talked to you. Luckily I didn't know you back then, right, if I would've talked to you you would've given me really good advice. You'd be like dude, what are you doing? Relax, take it easy, come back in a year, right, but I would have asked you why you were doing it Right, and if it was, you still would've told me nothing.
Speaker 2:I want my kids to learn what commitment looks like. I want my kids to learn that we're not going to get handed anything in life. Everybody wants the corner office. Not everybody wants to work 10 years in a cubicle to get the corner office right. Right, if that's what we're teaching and those are the conversations that are going crying like look, my kids are my daughter's in gymnastics, which I think is a sport very similar to wrestling. Right, very different.
Speaker 2:They're different, but they're similar in that they're individual very hard, physically challenging, and you are not going to be good if you don't go through some physical pain, build some strength and look. I think going through that at a young age is good. So if my kids were to come to me and maybe this is helpful to parents and Joey, I'm fascinated to hear what you have to say about what I'm about to say but if my kids at their young ages right, jenny comes to me, she's eight and says "'I don't want to do gymnastics anymore'" and she's good, she's really good, she's really strong. And Bobby comes and says "'I don't want to wrestle. After that happened, I would want to know why. Is it because you don't like it or is it because you are trying to get out of hard work and that those are two very different topics to deal with your young shot but in wrestling it's like I see these kids come from football all the time, right and they're like you know they?
Speaker 1:they come into this practice and they're like what the hell is this? I mean it's really really hard it is, they can't. And these are top football players. They can't do a push-up. They can't do these these, they can't get through our warm-up. You know what I mean? Why does kids usually don't like it? And because it's a tough. This is hard, damn sport, man. Yeah, and very little glory. And that leads me to my next question. Right, let's talk about a little bit of a glory, right? Mill NIL Jody, before we go there.
Speaker 2:Jody, can you react to that? Like if a kid, a young kid, right your kid's age, my kid's age kind of to, to, to to your God, come out, elijah, right early on crying. If somebody asked you that, what would you have said on, like when you're trying to stop?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's interesting, Cause six months is a long time. That's, that's brutal. No, no, no, no. But when kids come, you know it's like you said, they struggle they're breathing hard. When kids come, you know it's like you said. They can't do push-ups, they struggle, they're breathing hard, like you know, the tears are coming. I'm hey, just come back, the best thing you can do for yourself, come back.
Speaker 1:The next practice, don't hang the kid off like I did, making sure he comes back with little uh hot wheels don't try to get out, come back.
Speaker 3:It'll get easier, you know, or you'll be. It won't get easier. You'll get. Get easier, you know, or you'll be. It won't get easier. You'll get better at this. You know so, um and all over longevity, and I see that even with like short term camps, you know um day one they struggle and they, they are not who they should be or could be, Um, but by day five or 14 or 30, you know, the progress that you make is crazy Um, so that the best thing that you can do for yourself is just keep coming back.
Speaker 1:But yes, some of those bugs in there. Jody, what's going?
Speaker 3:on. I know I don't get in there. There's one just one.
Speaker 2:Beekeepers, let me alone, costume next night. That's what happens to the young guns bugs, they're coming right, they're persistent at the end of this conversation he's gonna do it right now all right, so I got.
Speaker 1:I have two more questions, right, um, okay, so let's talk about nil. Um, I'm curious, you know there's not really a psychological answer to this, right, but I'm just might, maybe, but, um, okay. So one of the cool things is that you know I deal with. I have other parents that are like oh, they're you know and my daughter is in one of those sports that you can make some serious money, you know. But, but, um, I love. What I love about wrestling is that it is just there is no final professional outlet. It is just about being the best. You can be, working hard, falling in love with the hard work, getting into a really good school and starting business. Cause you know, at the end of the day, what I'm trying to build with both of them is just businessmen and business women, right, so that is, you know, sometimes I see the professional outlet as a bit of a distraction and a bit of a a very what is it? Less than 1% chance, you know.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's like a point something right.
Speaker 1:So they're. You know they're falling in love with that goal and you know things could happen. And you know, if you focus on business, in my opinion you're always going to be successful in it right. But now I'm hearing, you know, crazy dollar amounts definitely thrown to football and basketball and everything. But I'm also hearing it from other sports. You know kind of you know trickling, trickling in to to from other people trickling into wrestling. So what are your thoughts on it, jody? Is it good for the sport, bad for the sport? Do you feel kind of like I did, like oh man, it's kind of I don't know.
Speaker 3:It's kind of making it a professional outlet. It's I don't know. I'm actually torn between, I don't know if it's a negative or positive. Yeah, I I'm very torn, and I guess not torn is where I'm very, um, intrigued to see how this is going to work out, because do I think it's amazing for young athletes to start making money? Yeah, I do, you know, and, um, I think that there's really really great value in that. But it's going to be interesting, like whenever you have a an athlete, you know, and I, and this happens, you know, in all areas of life, but it's going to be interesting in wrestling how this happens. Like you have an athlete, let's say he's making five hundred thousand dollars and the assistant coach makes seventy five thousand dollars, like, yeah, that's, that's your coach, that's your mentor, like it's going to be interesting to see how that all works out well, it happens in the nfl, I mean.
Speaker 2:That's why this is a very sports side question, because it gets the culture right. And and, and that's where people you know in in my profession are being hired by coaches and and athletic directors, because, to your point, jody, that's a perfect example. And then think about teammate to teammate. Right, I was the top paid guy last year, but then then this guy just left, you know, penn state or whatever it came over here. He's the top paid guy now. Well, what does that mean for my? And? So there's group dynamics, there's team culture, there's also.
Speaker 2:Then you have to get to like identity and principles of a team, right, um, and look, is it good for the sport? Bad for the sport? I don't think I'm important enough for the sport to even have a vocal opinion on that, so I'll stay out of that part, right, but like, as far as like is it? It's very important, and it will continue to trickle down, um, to you know, as guys, maybe their high school teammates and like, well, I'd like to go to this school, right, but 10 years ago I would have picked this school and go with my buddy, but now I'm not going to go because this school is going to pay me. And look, these are life-altering decisions.
Speaker 2:So it comes down to then, not just team identity and principles, but all the way back to the beginning of this conversation, like what are we teaching our kids right? Character, commitment, what I think it again comes down to how you treat people. You know, how you present yourself and whether you're talking about nil or how you properly detach from the emotional stress of winning and losing. It's all going to come back to do you know who you are and does the decisions you make whether whether it's the way you wrestle, the way you deal with NIL present properly who you are, and it might be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I mean it also. It also makes it fair too, because you know, and again I know I'm biased to this and everything like that, but I know that, you know, compared to other sports and I have I have, you know, friends that have kids in other sports I'm going to use baseball and I'm going to use football it is nowhere near. Those sports are nowhere near as difficult as wrestling, nowhere near as difficult. I mean I again.
Speaker 2:And I'm you mean like wrestlers should get more? Yeah, Well, I'm just happy. All three of us are a favorite.
Speaker 1:I'm just happy, I'm just happy that they're getting something, you know, because it'd be. You know, it's just, you know, again, life's not fair in the whole situation. But yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's going to be, it is, it is going to be interesting, but I am glad that there's some money trickling down and I'm hearing some pretty good numbers, like really good numbers, so that's, that's great, all right. So I guess, my last question, unless you guys have other things, um, you and I have talked about this also.
Speaker 1:Um, you know faith, religion in the sport. Um, I've I don't know, maybe because I don't watch that many other sports, but I've noticed it way more prevalent, way more. You know it's, it's it. When you look at the finals, right, um, at the ncaa finals, it's everything is, you know, jesus and God and the whole situation. And you and I have talked about the psychological part of that. And and, jody, I guess I'll ask you, I mean, is there, is there a correlation to more faith? You know, based athletes and success and and and and how do you, how do, how do is is, does that even? Is that something, that, that that you work with, or is that something that you influence? Or what's your thought on that?
Speaker 3:That's a great question and I think wrestling is important because it's just you out there. You know, and other sports you pass the ball and you can always blame someone, but in wrestling, and especially at the big time, like there is a lot of pressure, you can try to say there's not and how do you handle it? You know and all that stuff's super important how you do handle, but it is there and it's more and more and more um the higher level you get and no cameras being shoved in your face. So I think that that self-belief in yourself and then realizing that there's more than just you, um and and different athletes handle that very, very different, but you do see it a ton right now and I think there's a huge benefit um, you know for um your faith and everybody's different again, um, where you grow up and you know United States versus different countries, but your belief um is crazy important when you're out there in the biggest matches of your life.
Speaker 1:Sorry, so I have. If you want to finish that with that, I thought of one more, not a question, but a comment. I want to want to know your guys take on it, but I know you have an answer. I'm not. I've heard your answer, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and look I've. This is a topic that I spend a lot of time on, you know, from the standpoint of guiding somebody's mindset, because I am not a spiritual leader, right, Not supposed to be, not qualified to be and shouldn't be in that role, and so it's very. This is such a fascinating question and topic to me because I could have two let's call them clients, let's say they're both wrestlers, and let's say one is, you know, deeply entrenched in their faith. Faith, and it's part of who they are and it helps them. And then one of the exact same talent level is not religious. So for me, in my role, right as a mental conditioning coach, the job is to help them be as successful as possible. Right, To give them the skills to get them to be the most elite version of what they can be. So the practical application of that right throughout my career is well, for this person who is very faith-based, that's a part of it right, and for this person who isn't, it's not and it's not my job to convince them it should be or shouldn't be right. So that's kind of a conflict, because you can see your example right, you see, and I'm in wrestling a lot, so you watch the division one finals, right, you watch the, the interviews that guys like David Carr and Aaron Brooks give, and they're very open and authentic about their faith and it clearly is a part of how it helps with the question. Well, it's clearly everything Well, right.
Speaker 2:But the question to me again, just in my silo of performance right, Not in all of life, because, again, I'm not a spiritual leader, Well, okay, well, how and why is that helping? What part of it and I think it comes back, Jody, to your answer is like well, everybody deals with pressure differently and ultimately, the athletes that choose have made a choice at some point in their life to have a spiritual component to their performance. It's because they've made a conscious choice to have it be a part of their identity, their very authentic answer to who I am. Because this other topic of winning and losing that's kind of been sprinkled throughout this conversation, right, Well, winning is fun, right, but we don't want to make it too much about winning and losing and that's a whole puzzle piece to put together.
Speaker 2:Part of it is how you do that properly, validating that we want to win and there's nothing wrong with that, right, that's why we compete, but making it not the end. All be all of it is very challenging. If you haven't answered the question who am I, what is my identity? And I think in that for some people, if that's part of their answer, then what I would say to you is it is paramount to realizing your best performance, but it doesn't mean you have to do that. To realize your best performance would be my answer. You just have to go through the process of finding another way to answer the question who am I? Because who am I is going to be the same in seven minutes when this wrestling match is over.
Speaker 3:Right and I do it like I was, like you know, with all the pressure and stuff, it it's just you out there and whenever you have a deep faith, like then, it's not just you.
Speaker 1:You know you always it almost takes the pressure off, right, it almost takes. It takes all the pressure off, really right, because it's all up to god, right, it's all I think whatever god wants, right.
Speaker 2:I think what jody say is you're not alone, right. When someone would feel alone, you don't feel alone, but that doesn't mean.
Speaker 1:Well, it gets confusing, because if the other guy's religious too, then well then you're both on it, right? But it's not about the other guy.
Speaker 2:right, we want to make it about ourselves, right, so right. So I think the point is, though, that I would offer to somebody again because it is not my role to be a spiritual leader in this conversation Like I would say to somebody who came to me and said, look, I'm not religious and, if you know, this guy is out there and he doesn't feel alone. I can see the peace that he feels in a high pressure situation. The peace that he feels in a high pressure situation, well, how do I, how do I get that? Well, the answer is who are you so that you're not alone? Maybe it's family, maybe it's it's something.
Speaker 2:There are other ways to answer that question, but you have to go through the process that you know. A, a faith-based track, allows you to go through, to have in high pressure situations and, by the way, that's forget about wrestling for a second right. You're going to go through life. You're going to go. You're going to get fired someday. You're going to start a business someday. You're going to have a hard time making bills someday. You're going to fight with your wife someday and struggle with it Like you don't want to be alone in those moments. Of course not but, but. But you know, if you can always come back to this guiding principle, that's when you're, that's where that source of confidence and peace, and not feeling alone, comes from. And there's there's different ways.
Speaker 1:So the question, the answer your answer you just gave right now kind of came because you know, being religious or not is is. Is has a lot to do with upbringing, right? So it's, I was not raised religious.
Speaker 1:In most cases even though my name is Jesus, which is pretty funny that I'm I'm not really a religious guy because I wasn't brought up religious right. So then, in turn, my kids are not, you know, born religious. They're not raised religious right. Can I make an effort to it? Yeah, but it kind of seems to me again, it kind of seems fake for me to to do that. So we were kind of talking about, you know, listen, even though my parents did a looking back, now they did something pretty cool. They're like well, your grandfather's pretty religious, go with him. Problem is, I didn't really like my grandfather too much, so that didn't help, you know, but he'd go to church with him. But, that being said, your answer is more like all right, well, if that religion is not really an option or it's not something that's natural to you or anything like that, how do you kind of duplicate, you know, I guess, that that or?
Speaker 2:how do you which in its most simple form to me comes down to you have to have an identity that is as secure and comforting to you? As someone who is deeply faith-based and again, it's not my job to have any judgment around which is better or worse I think that I mean you've probably coached kids, jody, that were deeply faith-based and some, I would imagine, that are not, that you know had to find that source of comfort and peace from somewhere else. Right, absolutely, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, all right. So one last one. We've been at it for a while already, so this is more like a theory of mine. I want you to see if you guys think I'm crazy or if I'm right. So I think that there has been a huge improvement in in the united states at the junior level and at the olympic level. Just, we've been in the last what 20 years we've become. We're just way better than we were before. Correct that, fair to say, as a country, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I thought I had a thought and and I think it has a lot to do with, uh, track wrestling and uh, floor wrestling, right, the fact that, um, right, you could see a video, right of so. So, for example, my son, let's say he, he, he does, you know, three moves really really well, okay, um, and he has a big competition. The competition is going to be looking at his videos and they're going to see that he has these three moves and they're going to have the counter to those three moves, right, so you are forced to not be a three-trick pony and you're kind of forced to evolve, right, and if you do that and you multiply that by every kid in the united states, by every tournament, by every year, for the amount of years that this been around. Doesn't that kind of lift up the level of the entire country, and does that have something to do with how much better we've gotten? What do you, what do you guys think of that?
Speaker 3:Jody's got to go first on that. No, yeah, and I think you're right. Yeah, a hundred percent. But if it's just to like look at technique and break down film, the cool thing about that is that it's not limited flow. Wrestling is not limited to the united states. You know there's kids from, you know, china watching our guys wrestle. There's kids from iran watching, you know, so it's interesting I wonder if they do.
Speaker 1:You know that for a fact that they do 100.
Speaker 3:They do, yeah, and they've attested that. They've had more success around the world because of things like that. To me, I think it's a couple of things. Obviously I don't want to say clubs is like the main thing, but I think like when I was growing up, there was no clubs. You know it was your elementary coach was coaching you and he may have wrestled in high school and stuff, but you know so I think, that there's so many amazing clubs out there. If you look at the clubs and the leaders of the clubs, there's NCAA champions and Olympians and you know you name it running all these youth clubs, and so five and six year olds are getting coached by NCAA champions.
Speaker 1:So I think clubs have done a great job.
Speaker 3:Is there some harm there? Maybe, you know sometimes, yeah, there is. You know, sometimes it takes away from school programs and stuff. So there's a fine balance there.
Speaker 3:And I don't want to say clubs is the best thing that's ever happened. I'm not saying that, but I think that you know success clubs and then the biggest one, I think, is the RTCs. You know that now it's legal. Like our kids, our best kids, are able to go to Pitt. They're able to go to Penn state. They're able to go to West Virginia. Mileage wise. They're allowed to go to Ohio state and work out for free with those college athletes and coaches, um, and so there's designated times when you can do that. You have to be in a certain mileage radius.
Speaker 3:But I think RTCs is a huge, huge reason, um, that our kids are getting really, really good at a young age. And then you know there's more money and whenever I was growing up, you know even in the Hawkeye Wrestling Club it wasn't like guaranteed you were getting paid that month. You know now that you know after you graduate you're making a decent amount of money to keep training in wrestling. So I think that that's really cool. I think there's more financial backing, I think like clubs and RTCs, along with, like you said, flow wrestling and media outlets. When I was growing up, you couldn't watch the Big Ten channel and watch two dual meets on a Friday night, and now you can sit down with your family and watch two dual meets and record them and go back and watch and break down. So I think there's a lot of value in in kind of like the media, like you said, but then also like the actual coaches who are coaching our young kids, you know, and the exposure they're getting, yeah, and the videos that they go watch and everything.
Speaker 2:So yeah, look, I would just add to that. I agree that the I agree with everything both of you said and from the standpoint of, like, not just looking at how it's impacted wrestling, but from a mindset perspective, right, like the access to information is great. And this I get people upset at me sometimes in my world because I always say, like, look sports, like people like nobody's ever heard of us, right, somebody wants to hear about good coaching. I'll be like we'll go go learn about jody. Right, go learn about nick saban. You know, like I'm not gonna give you the name of a sports psychologist.
Speaker 2:I did talk to that high school here. I'm one of the parents. I was like, oh, what resources would you suggest for you know our kids to read? And look, there are books you can read and there are certain sports psych type people that you can go follow.
Speaker 2:But at the end of the day, the way that and this is funny for me to say, cause I'm not on social media at all, cause I don't athletes like the guys, jody you've coached, like the guys that are wrestling at Cornell or Penn State, the way they can put out information for someone like me commenting a while back on, like mentors and how you help have sustainable enjoyment.
Speaker 2:Like, go connect to your heroes because you can go learn from them. So, like when I get athletes and their clients and their middle school age, I don't have them go read a book written by a sports psych person, right, and I'm like, well, who are you, who are the athletes you like? And if it's a wrestler, I'm sure they're going to say names like Spencer Lee, right, kyle Dake, jordan Burrows, okay, good, well then go learn what that person did, cause you can go find that information and flow interviews and other podcasts and other their own social media channels. Like, go become an expert in what made them successful and see what pieces work for you. And then, by the way, like, as wrestling, we have kind of a wrestling hardcore mentality in our sport. Like, go learn from Steph Curry, go learn from Tom Brady, like what made the greatest people?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, athletes are athletes.
Speaker 2:So the fact that and now that all manifests itself in somebody who we mentioned earlier, like Bo Bassett, who's become such a popular athlete as a sophomore in high school right, jody right- Junior just started his junior year, yeah just finished sophomore year, just started about to be a junior right Like he's created such a platform.
Speaker 2:But a lot of his messaging that I very much enjoy as a professional in the mindset field is very mindset related, like that didn't happen 10 years ago and I think that it's yes, it's, it's all the things Jody said. Right, he's getting access to certain RTCs and and and through flow wrestling, but he's also probably learning from athletes like a Spencer Lee that came before him and what made him great and okay, now I can translate that to others and I think this generation of athlete that we have I'm getting younger and younger clients who are understanding, like, if I want to be elite, it, it I can't just be my body, it has to be my mind too. I think that's new, but the ability to learn it in a cool way. I guess boring to learn from somebody like me like go follow Bo Bastard on Instagram. You're going to learn very similar stuff. I'm just going to maybe help you be accountable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that being said, you and I, you and I, you and I met kind of organically. I don't know if I would have kind of reached out and and, and, uh, you know, and, and and you know, focused that much energy on the sports psychology, thinking oh, they're kind of young now and the whole situation. But, um, I will tell you that I am, I don't, it's not, it doesn't feel medical, it feels like the beginning of the intro.
Speaker 2:There's a difference between, like mental health psychology, yeah, sports.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's conversational and you're just, you know you're, you're having conversations and you're and, and just kind of guiding you know a thought. So, all right, guys, um man, thank you so much. Love you guys Again. I'm I'm lucky to have you guys in in in my life and the fact that I could, you know, call you guys, and and and pick your brain is awesome. So I wanted to bring that me, being the amazing, not selfish human that I am, I want to. I wanted to bring that to everybody. So, um, so, uh, how do people get in contact with you for, yeah?
Speaker 2:they can find me. I just mentioned I'm on social media, so bobbydoogiecom. The last name is spelled kind of weird D-U-G-H-I, right, so yeah, yeah, and I can't speak higher.
Speaker 1:Again, it's very conversational. Give it a shot. Every athlete has kind of stuff that they're kind of stuck on. Um, it could be minor, very minor, and it could be a huge thing. Um, it's, it's been, it's been great, it's been great for us in our house. So and uh, jody, we've been going to you for what? Four years now or something like that. So, uh, you come to Miami. We love when you come to Miami. So, try to come. You know a lot more. Um, young guns camps, right, um, just young guns wrestling club, right, jody? That's pretty much it.
Speaker 3:For our camps. It's young guns wrestling campscom. Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay. So again, guys, thank you very much. I hope you know, I hope, uh, parents out there appreciate it. Uh, if there's any questions you guys have whoever's listening to this I didn't think of let me know and I'll answer it on Instagram. So, thank you very much, guys. I really really, really really do appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me All right, thank you, hey, my last question when are we doing this again? That was, that was an absolute blast. I learned so much just in that little bit. I really want to go.
Speaker 1:I'm going to. I'm going to definitely hate myself for a bunch of questions that I didn't ask. So I'll start. I'll start and people are going to tell me oh, why didn't you ask this and that? So I'll definitely want to do.
Speaker 1:You know, I should be the last guy that takes the responsibility to better the sport, but I think this sport has done so much, you know, and sports, you know, has done so much for my kids and for me. I wouldn't be the successful businessman I am if it wasn't for sports. So I think people that don't play sports don't really understand how much it has to do with life. So, yeah, if we could continue to kind of like come up with stuff and challenges and helping people kind of, you know and again, I'm in love with wrestling, you know, I might even give myself cauliflower here, but I'm perfect, so I could fit in. So I could fit in with you guys a little bit more, Jody, you know what I mean. But, um, but yeah, I love you guys and hopefully we could do this again. Thank you very much.
Speaker 3:Awesome, All right guys. Thanks, jody, love you, bro, got it, we'll see you guys Take care of those bugs, man.
