Real Estate Talk Podcast with Jesus Castanon | RETalkPodcast
The Ultimate Real Estate Unveiling! Raw, Real & Revealing insights from industry experts
Dive headfirst into real estate's most electrifying depths with industry legends - Jesus Castanon, Josh Cadillac, and Richard L. Barbara. Why legends? With billion-dollar deals, groundbreaking innovations, and wisdom that's transformed the landscape, they've not just witnessed the game; they've been the game-changers. And if that's not enough, they're joined by a parade of industry-expert guests, spilling secrets and dishing advice that you won't hear anywhere else.
Expect RAW, REAL strategies that shook the market, REVEALING insights, and timely takes on today's market, coupled with actionable advice.
This isn't your typical real estate chitchat. This is RETalkPodcast - where the titans and top minds of the industry unite. Dive in, and prepare to have your real estate perceptions rocked!
Real Estate Talk Podcast with Jesus Castanon | RETalkPodcast
Diving Deep into the Complexities of Property Ownership and Laws / Episode 33
Have you ever considered that traffic in Dorel could be a terrifying act of terrorism? Or pondered the intriguing implications of the Conveyances to Foreign Entities Act on property ownership in countries like China and Venezuela? Strap in, as we unveil the answers to these intriguing questions, and much more, in our latest thought-provoking episode.
First, we tackle the complications of the Conveyances to Foreign Entities Act, discussing why certain countries were specifically singled out and the repercussions this act has on property ownership. As we unravel these intricate legal policies, we also delve into the fascinating class action lawsuit against realtors and its possible outcomes. We don't stop there though; we also offer insights on how this could change the home buying landscape, potentially impacting the secondary market.
Next, we decode the perplexing world of real estate transactions, highlighting the impacts of a free market on property appraisals and examining the implications of a zero commission policy. We help to demystify the roles and responsibilities of buyers' agents, listing agreements, and dual representation. We further navigate through the challenging terrain of document-intensive transactions, tackling the importance of the initial offer, and how to handle the nitty-gritty of negotiations. Finally, we delve into the exciting realm of real estate sales roles and responsibilities, sharing expert tips on how to handle real estate attorneys and the importance of specialization. Get ready for a whirlwind journey through the intriguing world of real estate!
Real Estate Talk Podcast with Jesus Castanon - @retalkpodcast: The Ultimate Real Estate Unveiling! Raw, Real & Revealing insights from industry experts
Dive headfirst into real estate's most electrifying depths with industry legends - Jesus Castanon, Josh Cadillac, and Richard L. Barbara. Why legends? With billion-dollar deals, groundbreaking innovations, and wisdom that's transformed the landscape, they've not just witnessed the game; they've been the game-changers. And if that's not enough, they're joined by a parade of industry-expert guests, spilling secrets and dishing advice that you won't hear anywhere else.
Expect RAW, REAL strategies that shook the market, REVEALING insights, and timely takes on today's market, coupled with actionable advice.
This isn't your typical real estate chitchat. This is RETalkPodcast - where the titans and top minds of the industry unite. Dive in, and prepare to have your real estate perceptions rocked!
Meet The Legends:
Jesus Castanon: Visionary CEO of Real Estate EMPIRE Group, transforming property transactions into success stories.
Josh Cadillac: Renowned real estate coach, national speaker, and author; revolutionizing the art of 'closing for life.'
Richard L. Barbara, Esq.: Florida's legal luminary, pioneering change and setting the gold standard in real estate advocacy.
So let's go back to what you think realtors do Like for real, not a lot, bro.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, I know Listen because I know there's this undertone.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you what they do.
Speaker 2:I know there's this undertone between the attorneys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly See, that's what it is. That's exactly what it is.
Speaker 3:There's some bitterness there 100%.
Speaker 1:I went to college Listen how long? 100%, that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2:Wait a second this guy made 30 grand on this transaction. On the next installment of the show, Jesus will tell us why law school is a waste of money.
Speaker 1:All right, guys. I always ask and I am sorry, I should know what episode are we in right now? 33. Larry Bird, baby Larry Bird. So I want to start off by thanking you for finally posting his book. I greatly appreciate that, finally.
Speaker 3:I mean yeah, nick Pasley, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:So we have a couple interesting topics. First and foremost, I want to thank everybody who's been commenting. You guys have been giving us a lot of I don't know joy in our hearts Joy, laughter. Laughter. We love the negative ones, so keep those coming. The positive ones we just glance over. We really like to focus on the negative ones, so let's continue. Let's continue to do that, so it's like mean tweets.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jimmy Kimmel, mean tweets. Those are the best.
Speaker 1:If they would know how happy we get whenever we see one of those, they probably wouldn't send them anymore. I see them coming in. I'm like I'm going to save this one for later.
Speaker 2:I'm sitting now Assaulted in broken English. That's amazing With bad grammar.
Speaker 1:Today you were called the captain obvious.
Speaker 2:Captain obvious? No, no, no, yeah, captain obvious. Captain of the obvious Of the obvious, yeah, it's Mr Captain Nice to see you, buddy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Listen. So what's the topic today? I know we had one thing that's been kind of been brought up a lot, especially here in Florida. So what is it that?
Speaker 2:What's? Just because it's just a Florida law.
Speaker 1:That usually happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:People in Georgia are not that concerned about a Florida law, so what is it?
Speaker 3:Let's start with that, it's like a nationwide conspiracy that has just been manifested itself in legislation in Florida. Or it's just really a Florida thing.
Speaker 2:It is so well the other states are actually now moving to enact similar statutes. But I think we have the distinction of being the first and it's the what do they call it? The Conveyances to Foreign Entities Act. Conveyances to Foreign Entities Act, and it's codified at Florida Statutes section 692.201 through 692.205. And it's a hot topic right now. Went into effect July 1, 2023.
Speaker 1:So what do I tell my agent? That is Chinese and Venezuelan and she's calling me a frantic.
Speaker 2:She that she should move to Mars.
Speaker 1:Get out of Florida.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe Earth.
Speaker 1:On Mars they still don't have any. Yeah, they're not more equal opportunity, Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Equal opportunity.
Speaker 2:In fact, they're looking at they. I read the other day. It only needs, they only need 13 people to start an effective colony on Mars.
Speaker 1:Oh, really. So yeah, but that would have to send at least 130 over there, because most of them are going to die on the way.
Speaker 3:I think that's making some assumptions about the 13 people. Maybe we're not that leaping.
Speaker 2:I agree, but yeah, the Conveyances to Foreign Entities Act.
Speaker 1:So it's just, you know, it's got two main components, right.
Speaker 2:The foreign entity or foreign principle part, and then the affected properties, and you know, putting it simply, it just goes as follows there are certain countries of concern that they've. We've identified in Florida where we don't want foreign principles, as defined in the statute, from those countries of concern to be able to buy.
Speaker 1:But how do Venezuelan make it on that shit list? Because I mean, what's the last time we got a? Well, we got attacked you know, in any kind of way by a Venezuelan.
Speaker 2:No, it's just that Venezuela is like. I think it's a communist hostile government hostile government and it's very wealthy. It's got a lot of petroleum, so they're left leaning. Propensities really annoy us here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I mean they've never really. I mean the Chinese. Every once in a while you get a cyber attack, you get. You know they're there, they've. There's no secret that they are constantly, for many, many years, trying to attack us and find any kind of opening right. What's the last time a Venezuelan did anything to you? Know? It's weird.
Speaker 3:It's, it's the what appears to be some sort of collaboration that exists between them and other hostile players. I mean, there's definitely been more of a close ending of the relationship between China and Venezuela recently, and so if you're going to take and put, I mean I would think if you're going to put China on that list, venezuela has to do that and considering the presence that Venezuela has as far as population, there's a lot of people from Venezuela in this country who largely hate the government of Venezuela.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, Aside from fucking up the traffic here in Dorel, I don't think they they've really done anything negative.
Speaker 3:Although I think that could be considered an act of terrorism, considering how bad the traffic is.
Speaker 1:That's why. That's why they did it. Then I'm all in. But you know, richard brought up, so I hate when Richard's right. But you know, every once in a while he'll, he'll get something right cross. The. You know because, because you said no, it's, it's. You said it right off the beginning that it's not going to, it's not going to last it's, it's. It's considered unconstitutional. It'll be considered unconstitutional, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I may be wrong, though I mean.
Speaker 2:I first of all, almost immediately upon the laws passage, there were already groups that were going to come out against it. Lawsuits have been filed, there's a case pending in federal court and last week, or I think it was the week before now, so the the the plaintiffs in the case, they asked the judge to enter an injunction. Right, a temporary injunction, for if you're watching at home, that just means like a pause. So if we're litigating about the constitutionality of a particular statute and you move for a temporary injunction, you're asking the court to prevent the implementation of the law while we fight about it. So the law was went into effect July 1 and you go into court and you're saying judge, I know the law has been passed, I know it's in effect, but we'd like you to join implementation of the statute while we litigate it. Okay, now, in most cases when a temporary injunction is granted, that's a good indication, a decent indication, that the lawsuit has traction. Okay, that the lawsuit has legs, because judges are reluctant to grant temporary injunctions if they don't think the lawsuit.
Speaker 1:Why waste any time on it if?
Speaker 2:right. So so a couple of weeks ago, the federal judge in the case denied the plaintiffs request for a temporary injunction. In other words, the law is in effect and it needs to be implemented. Okay, so it's the law of the state at present. And so that puts closing agents, realtors, people in this business, in the position of number one. They have some obligation how it's questionable how much to be able to identify that, hey, this is a situation in which the statute is going to apply. And then there's a form of affidavit which actually the statute puts it on the Florida real estate commission to create the affidavit that would implement the rule. It's basically an affidavit that's going to say, hey, I'm the buyer and I'm not a foreign principal as defined in the act, or if, if I am a foreign principal, here's why the act doesn't apply. Okay, and so that's a one pager, it's a form affidavit and it's got to be signed in every single real estate transaction in Florida.
Speaker 1:That's fine though.
Speaker 2:So you know, there's already a form of affidavit out there.
Speaker 3:It's been circulating and we've been using it since July one, you know so I'm curious what are the exceptions that would allow somebody from one of these countries to buy?
Speaker 2:So there's a couple exceptions. Number one being from the country in and of itself is not enough, right? So you have to be, you have to be from the country of concern and you have to be domiciled in the country of concern. Okay. And domiciled is a term of art. We don't just mean you hang out there from time to time or you hang out here. You have to live in Venezuela, for example, russia, china, north Korea, iran, you know there's six, there's six countries of concern. So you have to be from there and you have to be domiciled there.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you're a true foreign national in the United States If you have a lawful permanent residency, okay. Or if you're a citizen in the United States, obviously you could be born in Venezuela, but if you're a United States citizen, the statute would not apply. You could be born in Venezuela, you can be a citizen of Venezuela, but if you have a permanent, lawful permanent residency in the United States, the law does not apply. Okay, if you're here on any kind of temporary visa or things like that, the law does apply, right, if you're domiciled there. Now, let's say you're from Venezuela.
Speaker 1:If you put it like that, though it's and I know you're against it in many ways right. But if you start adding those filters to it and adding those filters if you're not, this, if you're not it starts to make sense. Anybody who's from that country that does not fit any of those characteristics should be kind of looked at a little bit in depth, you know, and should be restricted in some kind of way.
Speaker 2:So it's not accurate to say that I disagree with it. What happens is, in law school, they teach us about what they call the bundle of rights with respect to property. Okay, and it ended up.
Speaker 1:I see it more as a restriction on the right of Americans to do what they want with their property and that's what you told me and that's what kind of made sense to me, because when I initially told you about it, I'm like you said it's unconstitutional. I'm like what the fuck do we care about the Constitution for somebody who's from another country?
Speaker 2:It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1:Right. And then. And then you said well, it's really towards the sellers right to be able to sell to whoever the hell they want, Right.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 1:That? That does make sense, right.
Speaker 2:Now I'm not sure that that's been raised. Actually, I haven't read the pleadings in the federal case and the plaintiffs are not. I'm not, I'm not sure, I said because I haven't read the pleadings, but I don't think the plaintiffs are like US citizens that are traveling under that theory. I would. I think that would be an interesting theory under which to to have the statute scrutinized. So yeah, I mean, my bigger issue with it is the restriction on sale. Now, quite frankly, sometimes there are countervailing or, or you know, prevailing concerns about why we might want to do it. So I think the agricultural you know the restriction on agricultural land makes a little bit more sense.
Speaker 2:And definitely, you know on on the critical infrastructure, the problem is that the way the statute defines critical infrastructure, I mean it's a lot so and we didn't discuss that part. So you know the statute's got two parts. Basically, are you a foreign principal has defined in the statute and if you are, are you buying affected property? Right? And affected property is either anything agricultural or any property within 10 miles of what the statute defines as critical infrastructure. And the list of critical infrastructure I mean it's long, it's. I got my trusty cheat sheet here. It's a chemical manufacturing facility, a refinery, an electrical power plant, a water treatment facility or wastewater treatment plant, a liquid natural gas terminal, a telecommunication central switching office, a gas processing plant, a seaport, a spaceport or an airport.
Speaker 1:So in Miami well, let's talk about right here, right now. That's a lot, yeah, yeah, well, throw.
Speaker 3:McDonald's on there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, pretty much it's about to go into the valley.
Speaker 2:Exactly, Listen. Within five miles of McDonald's, you're out of gas.
Speaker 1:Listen, you're right here, we got central command. So you know, nowhere in Dorel, nowhere in Dorel, we got. We got a dump, we got water treatment place, we got the airport Mm.
Speaker 2:Hmm, we have no, they put an extra command. Desantis looked at the map and he was like where do the Venezuelans like?
Speaker 1:Although you can't put it in your little bag, leave them Western.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:Weston might be there.
Speaker 2:Weston might be sufficiently remote. I don't know.
Speaker 3:I don't know Sufficiently everglades enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, so you know. So look, so the statute is, you know the lawsuits going to continue? I don't, um, you know, this isn't the type of case you. You settle, right, you got to you got to take the case of trial and and or to through summary judgment. Um, we'll see what happens, but I mean, I think it's actually getting some traction and, like I said, other states are now looking to impose similar statutes.
Speaker 3:So I mean it's not really unprecedented. I mean there's there's there's limitations in lots of other countries as to who can buy in the nationally 100%. I mean Mexico you can't Any coastal land period.
Speaker 2:One of our super, super, um motivated, politically motivated friends was like well, you can't buy any Americans, can't buy China. And I was like the Chinese can't buy in China. Yeah, so I mean I get where you're coming from, it's not it's not the best example but I follow Okay.
Speaker 1:I'll give a list of examples, since we're in the lawsuit. Since we're in the lawsuit, uh, uh, I guess subject right now kind of like what's happening with that, um, that class action lawsuit against realtors and their commission and stuff.
Speaker 3:Oh man, you know I'm worried about this one, richard, I have. Yeah, it's, it's uh it's interesting because that one is gaining traction. Yeah, it seems like, and it's surprising to me because it's going to put, uh, put sellers and actually the secondary market creates a real problem for the secondary market because of all the things we've talked about the secondary markets, underwriting criteria.
Speaker 1:So can we talk a little bit about specifically wasn't heard about it what? What is it exactly that they're, that they're claiming Um?
Speaker 2:Richard probably can explain this better but no, I definitely I want to listen in.
Speaker 3:Okay, I'll tell you what I do what I do know, um, because this is, uh, one of those things that I paid indirect attention to. It's basically going there, they're trying to make it where it's no longer required for listing agents to secure a, uh, co-broke Ridge commission from the seller when they list the property. So right now you have to, in order to put a property in the MLS, you have to offer a co-broke Ridge commission, Okay, and that is a cost that's passed along to the seller. The lawsuit basically states like why should the seller have to pay for briars, Uh, buyers to have their agent?
Speaker 3:And to me the obvious issue winds up being that it balances out when they buy. It sort of does and theoretically, the the appraised value of a home is respective of the fact that there was a commission that was paid. So you know the price is 280, but obviously what the actual seller received is less than that. But the issue to me is if you're now going to say, hey, look, you must list this property in the MLS offering no cope grow outgriage commission, and the lawsuit is basically making that agents are not allowed to not show it even though they're offering no compensation. It's going to force buyers agents to get buyer brokerage relationship agreements signed and get their commission from the buyer. The problem is, the secondary market doesn't allow the Fannie Mae, all the the folks that make the loans, FHA as well.
Speaker 1:They're going to. They're going to. They're going to have to adjust to the market.
Speaker 3:It's going to, absolutely they have to change because the buyer is not allowed to take and pay a commission and had that be wrapped up in the mortgage, so they'd have to pay that out of cash. What's the big issue with buyers? Always is they very limited cash on the way in, so it's kind of a size who's who's?
Speaker 1:who's the one leading that lawsuit? Do you know?
Speaker 3:somebody that's got nothing better to do at their time. They're upset that as a listing, as a seller, they were forced to pay the commission to the buyer's agent, who they think does a little guy like that, wakes up in the morning and wants to just completely fuck up an end because there's nothing beneficial.
Speaker 1:And I'm not saying it just because commission's going to be paid. We're just going to figure out another way to get paid on it. I mean, that's just. You know. I mean it. It and banks are going to have to adjust to it and everything. So you're just adjusting a whole business.
Speaker 3:It generally hurts the consumer because now the buyer's ability to make sure that they have representation is going to be precluded or harmed not precluded but harmed by the fact that now they have to pay for that out of cash. It's no longer an amount that can be financed into the purchase price of the property, cause if the seller pays the commission that amount, that total amount is wrapped up in that 96 and a half percent financing that they're going to get from FHA right On the if the buyer has to pay. The buyer is going to put their three and a half percent down and have to pay 10,000 commission on top of that, or whatever the number is, to that agent. There's some feeling that'll somehow reduce buyer's commissions. I think what it actually does is it harms the seller because the seller is going to have fewer buyers available that can afford to buy their home because they're not. And I mean, if they leave it as an option to the seller and agents are properly.
Speaker 1:So why are you saying it's getting legs? Why you just why?
Speaker 3:Because they're actually. The judges are giving them these injunctions. The judges are agreeing to different things throughout.
Speaker 1:Richard, have you seen anything on that or no?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean the case is pending. I mean I think the longer the case remains pending, the more problematic it is for the status quo. Right, because typically you know in a lawsuit and it's you know it's a misnomer, because everybody now is on top of, like, what happens in, you know, in cases, right, for obvious reasons. But you know there's two ways that that lawsuits go away. Okay, the first is they go away with non-dispositive motions. Okay, meaning motions that don't address the merits. Okay. So you hear it all the time.
Speaker 2:I don't know why the news reports on motions to dismiss. Okay, so and so filed a motion to dismiss. Okay, listen, only in exceptional circumstances are those permanent. Okay, tip, especially in civil. In civil court, when you file a motion to dismiss, you're just saying that there's something technically wrong with the other side's complaint and if the court agrees, the case is dismissed. But it's usually dismissed with what we call leave to amend, meaning the other side gets 20 days, 30 days, whatever the judge says, to just bring it back. Okay, so a motion to dismiss in civil court does not test the right or wrong of the allegations, it tests the technicality.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it's not the way the case was brought forth. Right, it says hey, even if you so the attorney fucked up. Almost I'm bringing it. It's just the way they technically something like that.
Speaker 2:So the standard on a motion to dismiss in civil court is literally judge taking everything that the other side says is as true in the four corners of the complaint. There's no relief that can be granted to the other side and if the judge agrees, then what happens is you typically get one, two, three, four, five, 10 additional bites at the apple.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:To there's no limit. Okay, there's no set limit.
Speaker 1:But usually the judge kind of what happens after a little while.
Speaker 2:If the, if the pleadings become what's called incapable of amendment, then you might get a motion to dismiss granted with prejudice. With prejudice means forever, you cannot bring it back, okay. But generally speaking, motions to dismiss are without prejudice, okay, and you can amend that. You can amend multiple times. So that's one way. And, but sometimes though, admittedly, a case might get dismissed and then the incentive to bring it back goes away. So the case isn't refiled because maybe there are a settlement is entered or something like that, okay. But the other way cases go away is via an adjudication on the merits, meaning a judge or a jury gets all the way through it and decides who's right and who's wrong, and then, on the basis of who's right and who's wrong, the case goes away.
Speaker 2:Now, you might have heard, everybody understands. You know that there's something called a. You know you have the constitutional right to a trial by jury, but, much like all Bill of Rights, it's not unlimited, so it's not in every case that you take to you get to go to trial. Okay, in fact, the the some, one side or the other can seek to get rid of a case by what's called summary judgment. Okay, and summary judgment is an adjudication on the merits and it's a motion that gets filed and the standard, the rule there, is that somebody says judge, even if you take all the evidence in the light most favorable to the other side, the party not seeking summary judgment, even if you give them every benefit of the doubt, no reasonable jury following the law can find for them. Therefore, we don't have to go to a jury trial. Your honor can dispose of the case right now. Okay, and the summary judgment motion is a high standard, okay. So in state court it's more difficult to get summary judgment than in federal court. The state court judges are. They don't like to be reversed and state court summary judgments come back often. Okay, appeal because we have a preference for a trial by jury, but it's not a guaranteed right.
Speaker 2:So the reason why I say that the longer a case remains pending, the more legs it generally has, is because and this is assuming that the litigants aren't just sitting there like doing nothing but if the case is being litigated heavily in the case survives motions to dismiss, survives motions for summary judgment that means now you're going to trial. So if you file a motion for summary judgment and the judge denies the motion. Now you have to have, you know, you have to look in the mirror, you have to have a serious conversation, because now you're going to a trial where you know, depending on where you are state or civil court, or state or federal court you're going to have six jurors, 12 jurors, regular people. They don't know the law. They're pissed off that they got to be there. Okay, they got to. You know who's going to pick up Timmy.
Speaker 1:And they failed the intelligence test on actually getting it getting to the getting stricken.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, you know some people want to serve on juries. I mean they love it yeah man, they see it as like you know, holy shit. In fact there's even there's a great movie on that Gene Hackman movie about like these lawsuits against big tobacco. I forget the name runaway jury was the name of the movie and was these guys that would literally go around the country and try to get him paneled on these juries so that they could, like you know, have these vendettas against the the. It was actually gun industry, not tobacco.
Speaker 3:It wasn't without a John.
Speaker 2:Cusack, John Cusack.
Speaker 1:Gene.
Speaker 2:Hackman, Dustin Hoffman Wow, what a cast. Oh no, it was a good movie.
Speaker 3:So basically what you're saying is these the longer these go on, the more stress tested the cases have kind of been yeah, and so that there's yeah.
Speaker 2:And the more likely that you'll end up in some form of settlement that will have industry wide implications. It's a foregone conclusion.
Speaker 3:I guess there was a DOJ settlement that was reached and they reneged and then the DOJ backed out and they're trying to get the DOJ back in because I guess they figured that's maybe their best solution. And if you look at some of the things that they were promising in there, they are going to take an effect. The way that we do real estate on a daily basis, like what there was, requirements, requirements for disclosure from buyers, agents you're no longer a say that the seller pays you. There's certain things that you can't say, you can't take out. You can't refuse a listing that's going to offer no buyer commission. The MLS is going to be required to allow listings to go in the MLS that have no co-brokerage commission.
Speaker 3:I mean because the reality of it is you have to realize, realtors, that MLS control they have really does create yeah, that's everything. It does create control of the inventory, and so if you're limiting compensation, I mean I get the argument. The problem is it's going to hurt the consumer. So I mean to me the consumer action groups need to be filing a counter lawsuit saying that, hey look, this is hurting us and our ability to sell our homes. That would be, that would be the next step. I would think. But I'm not an attorney, but we do have somebody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know, look the, they have a system similar to what you know. If these lawsuits go all the way, and and Rex, which is one of the, it's like a Texas based alternative to the MLS. Like they have these listings and they're not on the MLS and that was part of their beef. So they're one of the plaintiffs, okay, and they were upset that their listings are discriminated against because they have lower commissions, okay. So so National Association of Realtors and all that it's not the free market, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but what they're saying is it's not very free when the MLS is like has this kind of you know I don't want to use the term monopoly, but when it has this grip on the industry and then we can't get our listings on the MLS because the National Association of Realtors and the MLS people are preventing it because our commissions are lower. So what happens is, if you are a buyer's agent, all of a sudden you're a fan of the co brokerage system with Rex. You're going to get less commissions. So what you do is you, you strangle out these people like Rex so that they can't list their properties on the MLS, and so you basically have like, if you want to be on the MLS, you got to be paying these.
Speaker 1:you know, you have to have these high commission agreements, basically you could put it on Zillow, you could put it on, you know, on realtorcom, and you could put it anyway, which arguably gets more traction than even the MLS.
Speaker 2:I like that argument. It's kind of like so if you're blocked on Twitter by Twitter, you just go post somewhere else. Correct, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying that I like when I hear these similarities in your arguments.
Speaker 3:I just it was sitting back. He's not as normal, so why no?
Speaker 2:no, but hold on. So. So what happens is in Europe they don't they. They're basically dismantled co brokerage or maybe they never had it. Okay, but over there, commissions are lower. Okay, as a general premise, and there are very few, if any, buyer agents. Okay, but what happens is, over there, each brokerage has like their own listings. So if you're a buyer, okay, without like this general database of places to go and people that have access to you know, let's say, all the listings or as many as as are possible, then to be a buyer and make sure you see the best possible property for you you have to be calling.
Speaker 2:More exactly, you got to be calling multiple offices, which is to make sure that you're getting backwards the best sampling. Yeah, now it's true, they pay less in commission over there, their commission but they'll lose the more eyes on a property.
Speaker 1:The more value you get, the more the more you get for the property. That's just. That's just supply and demand.
Speaker 3:But that would that would that would that would require you to be a fan of the free market, which Europe is is a little bit less of a right flag waiver on that front. They very much like to have things controlled and sort of you know, be nannyed a little bit by the way here.
Speaker 2:That's one of the problems we're having is that it's like everything else. It's like, look, I think less, less of the things that we see changing in this country in business, and everything is less of it is a function of these ideological positions that, because people just don't think that much, it's just a function of the increased seat and desire for the nanny state. Yeah, okay, like we just want everyone to have to take care of everything for us, you know. So it's like you know. It's like we don't want to force people to look around, like everything you just said, like one man, you know, if you can't get your listings on the MLS, you could go to Zillow, you go to Redfin, you go to this. It's like listen, we don't want to make people think we want everything to be fair. You know, it's like a great book.
Speaker 2:There's a Kurt Vonnegut book, great book, called Harrison Bergeron, 40 pages, maybe hysterical read. And it's about like this time in the not too different, not too distant, dystopian future of the United States, where that we have this, we have an entire government office of the government called the United States Handicapper General, okay, and the office's express purpose is to make everyone as equal as possible. So if you are a dancer, and you are a wonderful dancer and you're very agile, then they'll weigh you down. You have to wear these weights so that you're no better than like the other dancers, okay. And if, if you're very smart, okay, then they fit you with, like this shock collar and every few minutes you get shocked, so that you can't have too many deep thoughts.
Speaker 2:You know so if, like, you're thinking real hard, it'll like shock you out of it you know, so that like you can't string together too many coherent thoughts, you know and it sounds hysterical, but first of all, the book is a great book and it's brilliant. The concept of the book is brilliant and these guys, these authors that wrote things like that this book is not a new book it's an old book. You know it ends with like what I don't know 60s maybe.
Speaker 3:Okay, I'll tell you what man you read Hayek, the 1930s economist, hayek, and they're all these same kind of thing. You know we're in these guys from the 1930s writing the stuff, seeing you know FDR and all the stuff that he did, and Stalin and all these guys, and then like their predictions and seeing how much of it came true and how much of it they fascinating same thing with Rand, all these people, you know, it's just listen, plato, plato's Republic.
Speaker 2:Plato's most famous work is this exceedingly long book called the Republic. And in the Republic, what he does is he goes through and he, he ranks, he talks about, he analyzes every then known system of government. Okay, so he goes through and he goes through monarchies, dictatorships, democracies, despotism, and he goes through and he ranks them, he discusses them and then he ranks them, and then he designs what he believes would be the perfect society, which is like Plato's Republic. Right, but but and frankly I don't think anybody would want to live in the Republic. But that's not the point.
Speaker 2:The point is that, contrary and remember this is, you know, greece is the birthplace of democracy Plato would actually tell you that democracy is the worst form of government horrific. He was absolutely not a fan. The only thing he thought was worse than democracy was despotism. Okay, and the reason for that is because he says that democracy, you know, he basically says it's a grand oversimplification, but he basically says that democracy is a system of government. That's like for a fickle individual, a person who, like, one day is into health and fitness and the next day is into money, and one day he wakes up and he destroys himself on substances, and then the next day he wakes up and he's like only eating vegan and all these kind of things.
Speaker 2:So basically Miami and yeah, I mean, it's fascinating and he's got this whole little monologue on democratic man and you read it and, by the way, this is written like 3000 years ago. And it's like holy shit, this is my neighbor, Like you're reading it and it's, it's incredible. It's incredible the parallels, because you know these people understand humans, but you know it's so. So in democracy, and one of the best lines in it, he says something like you know, democracy a perfect type of government trying to produce equality for equals and unequals alike.
Speaker 2:You know, and there are just some things that like you just can't, you just kind of you can't equalize them and so, but that's, that's what these people are trying to do. So Rex is like we should all be able to be on the MLS. It doesn't matter 1%, 3%, doesn't matter what we charge. And people are like no, we got to have transparency. And it's like what do you care if the seller it's like listen, I'm coming to sell my house, you're the agent. We agree on 6%. I don't care, I got to pay you 6%, I don't care if you take the right.
Speaker 1:So how is the Chinese law? How's that that? That that law, you know that that you considered, you know, potentially unconstitutional at one point, right, wouldn't it be the same thing? If I'm a seller, I want to fucking pay whatever fucking commission I want. I want to put it on wherever the hell I want, right, I mean so. So isn't it the same thing? I mean what? Who is this guy?
Speaker 3:trying to restrict it. I don't know that it takes away the ability of the seller to pay a co brokerage commission.
Speaker 1:It takes away the system. That that, that is, if that system is working for me right now, right? Not a realtor, I'm a seller, right? And you're screwing around with the system? Yeah, it's, it's. It's affecting, it's affecting it's affecting how much money I'm going to get for the problem I would.
Speaker 3:I would say that one of the arguments I make in my case, my classes is that the, the MLS, truly represents the retail residential real estate market better than any place you could look, because, I mean, they have done a very good job of bringing the vast majority of inventory there. So if you want to know what the retail value of a piece of real estate is, you can usually look at the MLS, even over the tax roll or other places like that, because the tax roll reflects hey, let me sell this to my cousin and distress that all sorts of other things that may be on the retail market. And so when you do that, actually I think the other unintended consequence is the valuation of real estate becomes much more difficult figuring out what something is worth, because now we don't have this one consistent location. We don't know how well a property on Rex is exposed to all potential buyers, so therefore an evaluation that it shows may actually be an adverse valuation for me to make.
Speaker 1:Figure out like what the retail value of a piece of like I mentioned. I mentioned the other day. There's there's three official ways to appraise property right the income, the income approach, the sales comparison approach and the cost comparison approach. Right, there's three. Replace the cost, yeah, but I also mentioned that the fourth is the one that nobody mentions, and it's just what people are willing to pay. Sure, but that fourth one specifically has to do with how many eyes are on a property, absolutely Right.
Speaker 1:That's just, and that's again. The free market, with what these guys are doing or trying to do, is absolutely going to affect the number four one.
Speaker 3:Well, I think that the big thing to me that's going to be very hard to implement and I think is going to generate a lot of lawsuits and a lot of problems, is it precludes a real terse ability. A buyer's agent from not showing it keeps them from not showing a property that is even offering zero commission. They're going to be required to show all property regardless of compensation, and I don't know how you implement that and I think that it just generates a tremendous amount of lawsuits. Because you know, if you have a buyer that's unwilling to pay you, what are you going to say? Get lost, yeah, we can't share that property. And I mean, I would think that the overall goal is to make sure that the buyers are represented by somebody that is going to look out for their side.
Speaker 3:I mean, I've done this business a while. When I work on the seller side, I definitely do everything I can to tip everything into the benefit of my seller. When I'm on the buyer side, I do the exact same thing. You know, if you've never seen a home inspection report, you don't necessarily know what's in there that's a problem and what's not. I mean, you know, I think it's going to be good for your business.
Speaker 2:But the thing is, you don't want to know either.
Speaker 1:Like people, they don't.
Speaker 2:People don't want to know. Listen, the whole thing with this is as follows the seller that got pissed off. Basically here's what he did. He agrees to 6% or whatever the number is, but what he is pretending he didn't know is that the seller's agent was actually only going to get 3% because, given that there's no requirement that you disclose cobroke origin, by the way, only really agents see the MLS. Okay, like regular people don't go on to the MLS. Okay, so what happens is but hold on, but they do.
Speaker 1:They just don't go into that part where it says the commission, because IDX is something that's attached to every single website. That's the MLS. It's a more filter.
Speaker 2:This is about the commission, so they don't see that part where the seller's agent is saying if you're another agent and you bring me a buyer, I'm going to split my commission with you, right, okay, so the thinking man's cure would be to just require listing agreements, which, by the way, are promulgated forms. You don't have to use them, but the Florida Association of Realtors puts out a form listing agreement, which is what most people use.
Speaker 1:We use a bar bar a Florida Association of Realtors and a bar.
Speaker 2:Right. So all you have to do is kind of modify the form to say to protect the seller. Let's say, okay, who's already agreeing to the 6%? Just add a little sentence that says I'm willing to pay 6%. Okay, but only to the extent that 3% is going to go to a cooperating broker. If you're the only agent in the transaction, then you only pay 3%, that's the part.
Speaker 2:That's not in there, because what the seller's saying is the only reason why I'm paying 6% is because you want to give half of your commission away. So, in other words, 3% is what you should be charging, because 3% is fair, because that's what you're going to make anyway. Okay, so just have it in there that says listen, man, I'll pay you 6% so long as you're only getting 3%.
Speaker 1:And if you're the only agent in the deal, then guess what You're only making 3%. Right, but that's not fair because you're working both sides of the deal.
Speaker 3:But, does it matter? Double the responsibility.
Speaker 1:Well, no, that's like you representing a client right and then, all of a sudden, you're representing the client that he's doing a deal with In all the hundreds of deals that you've done?
Speaker 2:how many times?
Speaker 1:Hundreds Motherfucker, are you crazy? Hundreds of thousands, are you fucking insane? Hundreds. In all the thousands of deals that you've done, hundreds of thousands In all the tens of deals that you've done, tens of thousands.
Speaker 2:How many times have you had an agent complain that the other agent isn't doing shit, isn't it? Get 3%. Well, a lot of times. Okay so, bro. So again, we don't really have a metric, for you know, you're doing all the work, you're earning all the work. The other side doesn't do shit. Like there isn't like a test for oh, you did your job, so here's your 3%. You don't have to do shit, you get the 3%.
Speaker 3:This is true, but somebody has to do it to get it done right.
Speaker 2:It has to happen, but what is there to do?
Speaker 3:What is there to do? Look, what is there to do.
Speaker 2:All right. So, yeah, what is there to do when you?
Speaker 3:when you have a buyer, unless you're in a fucking condo what are you doing, Bro? I'm loving this Let me just, let me just go ahead, let me just.
Speaker 1:You're better qualified dancers.
Speaker 3:When you hand out real estate licenses and this should be mandated from from FREC it should just come with a pooper scooper, because all we do all the time is have to go behind everybody and make sure they're doing what they're not supposed to. Because if you think agents are the only ones that suck mortgage brokers, I hate to say it title companies, the whole man's sp, everybody. My job they tell me that my job has something to do with real estate. My job is a fob job that occasionally has me looking at real estate.
Speaker 1:That's like saying that the composer, the guy with the little fucking stick that's in the orchestra, all he does is hold the little stick and go like that. No, dude, he's, he's conducting.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's a good comparison. It's an absolutely phenomenal conspiracy.
Speaker 3:I would say to you that there's this right. My job and I stole this from him, but it's actually a very good line Must be great. My job is to take and make sure that they have no surprises. Yes, and what that means is you're managing emotional state of these people that are spending hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars that may have never been exposed to this before. My job is to make sure that everything that can go wrong, which you're in the title company, you know there's a million ways for a deal to go sideways, right. My job is to make sure that we, in advance, know what those are. I've taken all the steps possible to mitigate those potential exposures and to take and shepherd them through, because You're walking them through a process that they have no idea what to expect.
Speaker 3:Even like you and I both know, three days before closing, what happens. The deal goes to this magical, horrible place called underwriting and all of a sudden, that buyer is getting. They haven't heard from their mortgage broker in a month. Everything seems fine and now they're calling them up, asking them for every document. Since Gutenberg invented the printing press, they assure them that they can't get a DNA sample from their dead grandmother's pet chihuahua. This deal's not gonna close. They're freaking out. They think the world's gonna end. Now for me. I'm out in front of all that stuff. I've told them hey, this is normal. Not only is this normal, this is good. Then, breaking your chops for more documents means that we're getting close.
Speaker 1:Wait a second. I'm a little insulted around. What the fuck do you think a realtor actually does? Though let's talk about it. So what should a realtor do, and what? Because then I'm gonna tell you what an attorney should do.
Speaker 3:So go ahead bro.
Speaker 1:Tell me what you think a realtor does.
Speaker 3:This is when I don't wanna be in the middle.
Speaker 1:So let's get to the data grid here, bro.
Speaker 2:Let's make sure that we set the premises of what we're talking about. This came up because Jesus was like it's not fair to have on the document which, by the way, same free market you can say no as the listing. Aegee, you should be like no man, fuck you, I'm gonna get 6%. Come hell or high water, whether there's another agent or not, I'm gonna get my 6%, which, by the way, is not the way it works. Okay. So your point is when there's another agent, I'm okay with only 3%, because the other guys got all this work to do.
Speaker 2:Even though we agreed that there's no rule, even though we agreed that the other agent could be a piece of shit, and you're still only gonna get 3% so either you decide.
Speaker 1:Well, a good listing realtor makes the guy do the stuff. No, that's not true, absolutely.
Speaker 2:A true listing realtor. Just emails him and gets pissed off. We see it all the time, In fact if that were the case, you'd never get to closing in here with the other guys. Shouldn't get paid Right because I would have made him do what he was supposed to do. It's false.
Speaker 3:I have a laundry list of ways to make him do it himself.
Speaker 2:So what happens is what happens is okay when you represent the buyer. Let's talk about just Miami Dade County, okay when you are the buyers?
Speaker 1:Well, that's not fair. Wait, wait, wait. Well, because that's a place You're going to low hang the fruit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, because that's a place where yeah, that's a place where you know, like for example the custom here in Dade and Broward, just in a few counties, it's that the title, the buyer insurance, pays title right and all that good stuff.
Speaker 3:Firefix and pay-as-in.
Speaker 2:And you know the buyer's agent has to prepare the offer Okay, which, in my views, a lot easier than being the listing agent and receiving the offer Okay. In the law it's the same. You know, you got two lawyers working a deal together. It's a transaction. There's always this question at the beginning Do you want to take a shot at preparing the document and sending it over to me for a review? You want me to do it? And the right answer is always oh fuck, you do it Okay, but the custom is the buyers prepare the offers Okay, so the buyer's agent has to prepare the offer. That's doing a little more than the selling agent at this point.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you know, no, man, no. No the listing agent has to you said to this point. So that means the listing agent had to, like get the pictures of the property market, the property, no, I'm not talking about that.
Speaker 2:Okay, no to this point. Okay, all right, but remember, all that gets done before the buyer even shows up with an agent, right, but there's work done.
Speaker 3:No no we're doing an Excel sheet with hours. No, no, no, no, we're talking about. There's an Excel sheet buyer.
Speaker 1:Hold on. This is the way I'm seeing this. There's an Excel sheet with hours, right the listing agent and the buyer's agent. You get frustrated because you know you're losing the argument.
Speaker 2:No, I'm getting frustrated, because this is why I had to set the premises. We're talking about the work that the other agent arguably takes off your hands, which is why you're okay with the 3%.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you said to this point so that's probably the 3% off, right, because we're talking about work that's subject to being unloaded, Okay go ahead, so you never get the work of the pictures and baking, the cookies and the showings unloaded. Not the baking, the cookies, the marketing of the property. Yeah, that's part of the fucking marketing you wanted to walk in and smell like home Marketing well marketing. You just did all that shit. By the way, how many offers did you get that you didn't accept? How many counter offers were?
Speaker 3:off the table? How many deals? How many times have you gotten deals? None of that work is off-loaded. Hold on. How many times have a listing agent?
Speaker 1:How many times has a listing agent gotten three offers? Can you help on this?
Speaker 2:And none of them close up the kind of work we're talking about.
Speaker 3:I get what you're saying and I think this is the piece rich that is, is the one that I get in my soul, the normal guy.
Speaker 3:The part that's off-loaded is showing the properties. So like, right now I'm gonna jump on a plane, I'm flying to Rome. Tomorrow, right, I'm gonna be in Rome and my listings are gonna be getting sold, and so that is the piece. That is the very time consuming piece. It's the reason why buyers agents have such a high attrition rate in this industry is because it is very time consuming To take people to see eight properties.
Speaker 1:So physically yeah eight properties it's a day.
Speaker 2:It's a good number. Yeah, might be three days, depending on the buyer, especially if he brings his mother-in-law.
Speaker 3:That's the tough thing. Yeah, no, I agree. And so to me there's this balancing point of that, and actually there's two things. One I wanted to toss out before I forget One of the big things that's in the lawsuit is they're gonna require the disclosure of the commission to the public. That's one of the things so like on the oh. So now it's on IDX. It's gonna be everywhere.
Speaker 2:This is part of what they're looking for the transparency. And this again, the lawsuit. It's rarely about. It's not about one thing, okay, it's not like, hey, we wanna dismantle co-brokerage. That's how the industry phrases it when they're writing about it to make it sound worse than it is what these people are looking for. Certain things we want more transparency, we want this, we want this, we want this, we want that. The other side, if you're against it, you're like this amounts to the dismantling of the co-brokerage system Socialism.
Speaker 2:Right and so again, look like I said, the longer the case goes on, the more likelihood that it will result okay in changes that both sides will agree to have. Okay, because if you let the judge and the jury decide, you may get all, you may get nothing, or you may get a combination of things that nobody likes. So it's a powerful thing to control your own destiny and that's why these cases, like I said, the longer they last, the more incentive there is to resolve the case.
Speaker 1:Okay, so continue on. What does the realtor actually?
Speaker 3:do I got one more thing, please. I'm sorry, and then we'll go back to this, because there's a question actually for you, rich, and I'm curious for the legal opinion. I know what I think, but who the hell am I? It's always my preference, if I can, for us to do the agreement on our side. I was meaning who, whichever side, I'm on right, because then I set all the terms.
Speaker 2:So if you're on the seller side, you do the realtor To do the agreement, you mean the offer, the contract.
Speaker 1:If you're on the seller side, you make the offer for the buyer's realtor. If I could, I would prefer If I had the choice.
Speaker 3:You're the only person I've ever seen, ever do this If I could. If they say, hey, I'm on vacation, could you? I'm like sure I'm gonna put how many days for inspections, I'm gonna put all those terms in there and they're gonna be as that's very, very, very, very rare.
Speaker 1:It's very rare.
Speaker 3:But what I'm saying is I'm asking for them Because we've heard of them, Because Rich kind of left me in it, and I know you're obviously in a position where you're doing agreements back and forth. Is it your preference always to do the agreement for your side, or are you like, hey, look, you go ahead and do?
Speaker 2:it. It depends. I mean, look, I usually with form documents like the FAR, as is.
Speaker 3:Only so amazing the way it goes, right man Go ahead and prepare it and send it to me.
Speaker 2:Okay. And the same is almost true with document-intense transactions, where it's like and it's the best, when you deal with lawyers and they're selling high-end property here, especially commercial, and they don't wanna use like the commercial contract that the group of lawyers put out there, they wanna send you their own and it's like 40 pages long. It's like, dude, it says the same shit, just with more here to fours and not with standings, yep. So it's like okay, bro, you wanna use your big fancy forms you justify your fee? No problem, okay so. But as a general premise, I prefer to poke holes in documents than to be the one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds way more fun To put the initial work, because no matter how good your contract is I know you when I feel like that judge was what I know about you.
Speaker 2:I prefer to do that, or to kinda look and see where the other side's coming from. It gives. I often tell people let's take the temperature. So when we see the nature of the document they send over, you kinda see where their head is. What's the notice requirement?
Speaker 1:Well, the first rule of negotiation is let them put the offer first. I mean, you always want to be the guy receiving the offer? Sure, I get that.
Speaker 3:So that's just the negotiation, if they're giving me the terms, the general terms. What I always look to do is okay, those are the terms you want, I'll go in there and put the rest of the terms in my. You're getting five days for inspection.
Speaker 2:There's that side too, which is good right. If we agree on basic terms, they rarely we call them the operative terms. No term sheet ever really goes into the nitty gritty. So, that might be your opportunity. Now again, listen the wealthiest people I represent the most successful people I've been around. They're very short on the nitty gritty.
Speaker 1:These are visionary guys.
Speaker 2:They're like oh we shake hands and we walk away, and then it's like let the lawyers figure it out, and that's when things start to get a little complicated, because it's our job to make sure nobody steps in shit to the extent possible.
Speaker 3:Protect them as best you can, while at the same time getting the deal done, if possible Right so you know, but and that's how you guys got the name deal, deal, deal killers, deal breakers, deal breakers, yeah, deal killers.
Speaker 1:Which, a lot of times, let me tell you, man, a lot of times is the case, cause you know, listen, I get it. You're charging $500 an hour and then you get a far bar contract in front of you, which, by the way, was prepared by the Florida Association of Realtors, and the bar which you guys had a hand in taking and baking the cake.
Speaker 1:Right, and then all of a sudden you taste it. It tastes like shit. That's basically what it comes down. And but I get it, cause if you're getting paid $500 an hour, you can't look at it and be like, all right, it's perfect, there, you go. Right, you gotta change the amount.
Speaker 2:No, I mean listen, I do and, like I said, I mean that's. It gets to the point where I think you know it's like there's the only lawyers that can't do that are the ones that really have to justify these insane rates where, like you, go into their office and the coffee stirrer has the firm name yeah, yeah. So like when you're when that happens, If the coffee stirrer is branded.
Speaker 1:Yeah, get out of there.
Speaker 3:Right you know what I mean. The run for the phone and the coffee has the logo Exactly.
Speaker 2:Right if they bring you the phone and like it's branded with the firm's logo all the conference room have telephony. Okay so it's like you know. Now you get to be, you know, a 20 year practitioner and you kind of you know you've earned a stripe or two. Listen again. I hate reinventing the wheel.
Speaker 1:As a general premise. So you've actually looked at a contract and say it's good, it's fine and not changed the one thing. There's no fucking way.
Speaker 2:No, I mean when you say not change one thing, I mean, yeah, like ordinarily, I'll get an offer. Let's say I'm representing a buyer Okay, and the buyer's agent prepares the offer Okay. And let's say that it's the the real ideal setting where you're asked to review the offer in advance Okay, I get many documents, contracts, that I have to say, yeah, it's fine. You want to know why? Cause it's fully executed. What am I going to do? Point out all the fuck ups now.
Speaker 2:Like like bro, that guy's a buzz kill. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Like yeah, no no, I get it Like. This is fully executed.
Speaker 2:I usually go right to the back to see how much time I have to spend on it. If it's fucking signed by anybody, my work is done here you know Everything you did wrong.
Speaker 1:I picked up the piece at the first point.
Speaker 2:So if you, if you send me the offer in advance, then I and you are, and I'm going to work for the buyer. Let's say we're going to do the closing, or something like that. I will usually add a provision that nowadays is missing way less often than it used to be, okay, which is, you know, the what I call the permit language. Okay, so nowadays, most offers will come to me and, and I'll see it, and it says seller will, at its sole cost and expense, close any and all open permits prior to the closing.
Speaker 2:Okay, and these agents, man, they slapped that on and they're ready to break their arms, patting themselves on the back Cause they, they think they they're like, we got it. They, they, they put it at seller's expense to whole new seller's going to pay. Wow, fuck you guys. Bro, you thought it all through and I and I will usually change that to you know a slightly better version of the same thing At any time prior to closing Right. That'll say you know it'll give you at any time prior to closing. So now we're not really bound by the diligence timeline Okay.
Speaker 1:But that's tricky though, cause once you pass the diligence and then it says at any time it's not tricky.
Speaker 2:It's not tricky. Okay, I've. I've rammed it up many asses with that, I know, man.
Speaker 1:but you're supposed to close on day 30 and then day 29. It should be restricted to a little bit, but it's not.
Speaker 2:I got it, so that's that's the law of drafting on the other side. So so you get that. Now you're the seller's lawyer and you flip to the back and you see it, and the guy writes at any time prior to closing. And you don't like that. You're going to say at any time prior to closing, but at no event within 10 days of closing Right.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then that's what you got to do. So this is advocacy, okay, so this is the law of advocacy and this is how you're supposed to do it, and so you know. But to answer your question, I will routinely, if that, if the permit provision is not in there, I'll put it in there. If it's low on what I call specifics. Okay, cause, like most people, they don't think about what's next. So in legal writing, you have to contemplate the consequence. So in in that common example, seller shall, at seller's sole cost and expense, close any and all open permits prior to closing. Okay, what if they don't do it? Now I know you're thinking whoa, that means the buyer doesn't have to close, and it's like but where does it say that? Oh, no, no, it doesn't say that. That's what I meant and I'm like okay, but you were writing it Like why didn't you just like put why didn't you just say what you meant?
Speaker 2:Why didn't you just fucking add the content once and by the way, this is like a common principle of contracts and in drafting and, by the way, in contract law, we have this rule okay, which a lot of the and you'll love it because it's common sense okay, a lot of the law-.
Speaker 1:By the way, it's because he's saying that, because I have phenomenal Exceptional Nobody's never seen any bit of more common sense Above average. It's unbelievable. I could just figure shit out.
Speaker 2:You know there's a rule in contract law that's called that ambiguity is construed against the draft. Sure, okay. So if you are the author of the document, you are charged with a heightened level of scrutiny about what you put in Another reason why not to do it, or left out right.
Speaker 1:That's the other guy.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll show you, I'll tell you what the cure was. Lawyers came up with a fix for that too, Okay. So if you have the typewriter, you have the pen, then you know. Listen, if it's important to you, you should have put it in there, okay. And if you wrote it that make me have to imagine it Right. And if you wrote it and you didn't put it in there, then the inference that we can draw is that it wasn't that important to you.
Speaker 2:Right okay, so now. So enough lawyers got their asses burned with that kind of rule that now, most of these non-form contracts, this is why you want. So if you're the big firm lawyer and now they're listening, they're like you see, rich, you asshole, there is a reason for my 55-page fucking document. It's because you'll put in there a disclosure that says hey, doesn't matter who wrote this, each party had a lawyer, each side had an opportunity and there will be no, you know no, construing against the drafter. Okay, so they'll add a provision that kind of to nullify that general rule of contract.
Speaker 2:Okay, but so when I get the permit language, I'll add, like consequence language, which is you know, and if the seller so, let's say, at any time prior to closing, if open, expired or needed permits are discovered, okay, the seller shall do whatever they have to do to resolve the permit issues, let's say prior to closing, okay, and if the seller fails or refuses to comply with the obligations imposed under this section, then buyer can one terminate the contract and request an immediate refund to the deposit which shall be given. Two, take the property subject, two, okay, and decide to close, right, so you provide this consequence and then all of a sudden, we know where we're going. Like we're not, you know, because you get the agent. I get the call. They're like, oh, I put it in there, the permit language, and they're refusing. And I'm like, okay, what did you write? After that they're like, no, I didn't. No, what do you mean? What do?
Speaker 1:you mean? What did I write after?
Speaker 2:I wrote that it was in there. I said seller had to pay, you know, and so you have to contemplate the consequence. So have I ever gotten an offer that I don't have to change? The answer is actually yes. When, let's say, I get it from one of your well-trained agents that actually listens, they cut and fucking paste the language that I've emailed 2,000 times. They don't wanna think. They're like bro. I don't have to think when I see this section 20, the blank lines, like Pavlov's dog, it's a bell bing. Where's my cut and paste? That's right, right, when I represent the buyer. Don't fucking think, bro. Don't be an author, don't do anything else Not the creative writing section.
Speaker 3:So when?
Speaker 2:it's done right, you know you don't get it. Some agents, they know they ask for the seller's disclosure. If it's a condo, they put the goddamn condo writer in there. I mean, like you know, the document comes with bells and whistles, not like you know, like there's almost a form of endem for everything you know. So it's like. Post occupancy is another good one. We just had this like listen, if your seller wants to stay in the property after the closing, that's a tricky one.
Speaker 1:We have an endem for that. I know it's real.
Speaker 2:Bro, but no, no, but the addendum doesn't make you exhaust the terms. It says hey, we're gonna either get into an agreement or a lease, and we're gonna do it at least for a day, right.
Speaker 1:and the reason why you need a lease is because it needs to specify what happens if you don't pay and if you don't leave, or because and because most people also don't know the difference. So no addendum, has enough language in it to cover black men's stuff, everything they could possibly have.
Speaker 2:Right, of course, no, no, and, by the way, that's the other. No, the fun of contract is that they're. You know, whenever the ship blows up, then it's like, well, it would have been much better had it set X. And it's like, no shit, asshole, If I had a crystal ball, I'd be the best fucking lawyer in the world. Right, so you can't plan for everything, but the universe of things that you should think about in advance is a lot smaller than people wanna give credit for.
Speaker 3:But credit for yeah, you're like how could I have imagined that?
Speaker 2:It's like, how could you have imagined what happened if the guy didn't do what you wanted to do? Well, that's because that's fucking. You know, it's 50%.
Speaker 3:Rich, I gotta tell you. They're either gonna comply or not you know, I gotta tell you the way you explained that the one time we were doing a class together was my favorite, which is that an addendum can never leave you in suspense. I thought that was a brilliant way. Like we're not happy as you call it.
Speaker 2:I was like hey, hey, hey, wait, wait say that part again.
Speaker 1:Wait, wait, can you? We're not happy like that. Listen, when you guys edit this, I'd like you to loop that.
Speaker 2:Just quickly go back to it.
Speaker 1:My favorite part, my favorite part my favorite part was when you said you said, you said Right, just make sure you get the emphasis on that, okay.
Speaker 3:No, man, I mean even what, cause I still use it. I give you credit for it and I still use it and I say look, you know okay.
Speaker 2:If it's a page turner, if your contract's a page turner, you fucked up.
Speaker 3:Something's wrong. Tune in next week to find out what happens when they don't do it. What happens next?
Speaker 2:Exactly, that's bad. That's bad, illegal writing.
Speaker 3:That's bad. That's a technical illegal term, bad.
Speaker 1:So let's go back to what you think realtors do Like for real Not a lot bro.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, I know Listen, cause I know this is undertone. Let me tell you what they do. This is undertone between the attorneys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly See, that's what it is. That's exactly what it is.
Speaker 3:There's some bitterness there, Listen.
Speaker 1:I went to college. Listen how long 100%.
Speaker 3:That's exactly what happens.
Speaker 2:Wait a second this guy made 30 grand on this transaction. The next installment of the show has to tell us why law school is a waste of money.
Speaker 1:Go ahead. So what do you think a realtor does? So a realtor, they show the property, All right. So let's start.
Speaker 2:They meet the client Showing the property? No, no, no. They meet the client, they prepare them.
Speaker 1:They show properties. You're off there already. First of all, they got to meet with the client. They got to get them to a mortgage lender so he could get approved for a loan. Yeah, depending on the buyer. Yeah, Most buyers 90% 78% 78%. Are you serious?
Speaker 3:Yeah, 78% of the client bought. You hear?
Speaker 2:that he's like Cadillac shut up. It's bad for my argument. I need to take 78. Cadillac, can you find me another 25 points? I need to say it's 93%, Honestly.
Speaker 3:I'll take 78. I wouldn't doubt in this market that it probably is more.
Speaker 1:OK, so I'll just cover the holes when you miss them. All right, so we meet with the client, assess what they're looking for, take them to a lender, get approved for a lender and then what Show properties Show properties how? Many an average are showed, that one I don't know, and by the way, what's the agent Like?
Speaker 2:are we dealing with our agents where they don't understand the use of the computer? An agent, Because nowadays you can put them on this little sign up where you tell them hey, I want to live within this many miles, I got this price, and every day the buyer will wake up and they'll get hit in the head with 50 emails. That's fine. Via property, that's fine. And then you just got to tell the agent which one you want to see.
Speaker 1:Ok, so right and they show that, ok, so they do the search.
Speaker 3:We've had that for a long time. It just doesn't work out that way. I mean sadly, it doesn't.
Speaker 2:It does. I was on that list.
Speaker 3:No, I mean but let's be honest, you don't consider yourself the average buyer either. No, because I can read. Yes, this is true, I mean Fine.
Speaker 1:OK, so fine. So then they show the properties. So let's say, in an average of what I don't know, 10 to 15?
Speaker 3:I would say 12 was the number that I kind of remember from someplace was the average. All right, so they show 12.
Speaker 2:You get to show a shit ton of property Then all of a sudden what happens and they like the property Remember but hold on a second Because, again, here's the thing we got to keep you focused Because, help me out, we're talking about work that you're offloading when you represent the seller. Ok, now, presumably, unless you have all 15 of these listings, unless the seller's agent has all 15 of the listings that the buyer's agent is going to show.
Speaker 1:I just want you to know the whole rule. But go ahead, I'll give you that. No, my point is that One property. They show that one property. My point is that it's one property. I know you're going with a technicality. I got to go. It's not a technicality. I know you're long enough, just go. It's very simple. Keep on going.
Speaker 2:When you're the seller, when you have the listing, we're talking about?
Speaker 1:what does the buyer's agent take off of your plate.
Speaker 3:What does?
Speaker 2:the buyer's.
Speaker 1:You figured out that little one Focus. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, focus so they took one showing off your plate, fine. Ok, and then?
Speaker 2:OK, go ahead. They prepared the offer. If it's a condo, they presumably, and they should be on top of the application process for the buyer. We train, in fact in our classes we train agents that when you're taking a buyer to see a condo, you should be ready, you should have the docs for that condo, the application.
Speaker 1:By the way, is that an easy process, getting them approved for the association? Oh, it's a pain in the ass, huge pain in time consuming. Pain in the ass, right? Nobody answers the phone Horrible, huge nightmare Horrible.
Speaker 2:And theoretically I'm willing to concede that if you are listing the condo and the buyer shows up with no agent, you're going to have to take that on.
Speaker 1:Right, because most buyers.
Speaker 2:It doesn't occur to them oh shit, I have to apply, and what does that mean? So what else? What else? They should follow up with the lender, right.
Speaker 1:Follow up with the lender To make sure that the lender is on top of it?
Speaker 2:And, more importantly, how about inspections that the buyers well, it depends.
Speaker 1:And does that inspector just magically show up with the property? Or you got to find them one and usually recommend a couple of them so they could help them pick the right inspector, schedule it, be there, analyze it with them, the inspection report, the whole thing right.
Speaker 2:No, they shouldn't do that, and I'll tell you that as a sitting commissioner. They should not do that. They should not do that. In fact, we frown on that, and it's very difficult to get inspection related courses approved for continuing education for agents in Florida. We really want agents to stay in their lane here, ok, so it's not a good idea to have your agent or to have an agent if you're the broker to have your agent giving your buyer their assessment on the inspection.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't say assessment, yeah, yeah help them analyze it and all that shit and look at it and tell them what's a concern.
Speaker 3:In Miami.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't do that In Miami. I wouldn't do that In Miami. You're translating them a lot. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:In Miami, the agents don't speak. I mean, think about it. How many, be realistic? How many of your agents don't speak English?
Speaker 1:percentage-wise Out of the 500, I would say, at least don't speak any at all.
Speaker 2:Like don't read it, like they can't have not functioning English.
Speaker 1:No they do because they got to read the contract and everything. But that's not their second length, that is their first. Yeah, I would say a large majority.
Speaker 3:I don't even know how many, but it was a large majority, I would think also your office tends to disrepresent that sub-demographic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're a Hispanic company.
Speaker 3:Spanish speaking Indural. I mean yeah.
Speaker 2:Seven of 10?. Eight of 10?.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:OK. And how many inspection reports have you ever seen in Spanish? None, ok. So if you're a consumer, you think it's a good idea to have someone who doesn't speak.
Speaker 3:Honestly, I don't think I'd want to see what it's reading. No, no, I wouldn't be kind of concerning too, and think about it now.
Speaker 2:So you're buying the house. Do you want the guy or gal that doesn't speak or read English to help you analyze your inspection report? Well, I think, Because I don't think it's a good idea. I know it happens because, again, these people don't think either. Sure, OK, but it's like anything else. It's like and, by the way, I do this in our classes a lot, Not just you I walk into class when I'm teaching a class to agents and I'll hold up the as is and I'll say OK, guys, be honest, now who's read this document? End to end, beginning to end. And in the room right, and I'll tell you you'll get one sheepish guy like that Because they look.
Speaker 1:They do like these guys at the debate.
Speaker 2:It's like, hey, who will support no matter what? And you see one guy was like this and then the crowd started going, and then they were looking around. They were like I better go on the train, OK, so when you ask that question, you get this test. So I tell agents all the time I go. Ok, if you're in the group of people who didn't raise your hand, how can you help the consumer? And, in fact, and if the consumer asks you, right out the bat, you present an offer. Have you read this?
Speaker 3:All credibly up.
Speaker 2:What are you going to say? You're either going to lie and say, oh, yeah, yeah, which is bad, or you're going to tell the truth. You're going to say, no, I haven't. I mean. You mean this one. No, I've never like the document itself. It's the same one we use every day, but I've never read it.
Speaker 3:I've never taken the time to turn off All 13 pages.
Speaker 2:So what kind of confidence can you inspire in the thing. So this just goes back to what the agent should be doing, and in my view they really should stick to sales. Ok whatever the aspects of sales mean. So babysitting the mortgage broker, I agree. Ok, because you're not doing, you're not interpreting things there. Ok, you're not giving your legal opinion. The mortgage broker is asking for your last 58 W2s.
Speaker 1:So the inspection report came with issues as it does. How many? What percentage of the time that would?
Speaker 3:be 100.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah 104% of the time.
Speaker 2:OK so 104%.
Speaker 1:there's something wrong, so who has to either extend the inspection period or help with the negotiation? Who's going to pay?
Speaker 2:the washer and the dryer. Both agents are doing that. Both agents for both sides, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what happens if there's only one side? Do you got to do both sides of the negotiation? It depends.
Speaker 2:Are you a transaction broker or are you just a minute? We're talking about what work is being unloaded.
Speaker 1:We're talking about what work is being unloaded.
Speaker 2:Unloaded. Ok, right.
Speaker 2:So if that's the case, so you're going to commune, no matter what you're communicating with the other side and, by the way, if you are a buyer's agent and you're buyer's requesting an extension, typically that extension addendum is going to be drafted by the buyer's agent First. In transactions where you don't have a listing agent, it's a control person. I see many, particularly in higher end transactions. If you're the listing agent, it's like you know, you're almost like a different. It's like the meme Remember, like the vampires when they're on the balcony. It's like you know everyone who locked in a 2%, looking at everybody else and they're like looking down at you.
Speaker 2:So if you are a high value, you know seller's agent, you know listing agent in this town. You may want to control everything and draft everything, OK, but you have to do that work right of documenting any changes to the transaction.
Speaker 1:So you know, and this is one thing that I think you and I agree, as long as everything goes right, everything goes right, Right.
Speaker 1:And when it goes wrong it's a disaster and that's what really. And the same thing with attorneys, right? So, yeah, you get paid the you know. There's one attorney that you know explained it to me in a perfect way, you know it's. Oh, what do you charge the 500 bucks an hour, right? Well, it's not for the hour, it's for the 15 years of school. Of my knowledge, yeah, Of cases that have gotten my ass kicked and this and that, to get to the point where I'm able to charge that amount.
Speaker 2:Oh, you'll love this one. You're paying for the pain itself. There's a guy. He's a very wealthy guy. He's got a big yacht, yachts, got two humongous motors engines okay. And a yacht so big he's got an engine room okay, it's not just under the fucking compartment, okay. And so you go down. The guy goes down in the engine room. He just bought the yacht. He takes it out. When he comes back he's pissed off because one of the engines has a noise. He can hear it, but it just doesn't sound right. You know when you pay Do I know?
Speaker 2:this guy, no, and when you pay 10 million bucks for a boat you know a boat of this size the fucking engine's got to sound right, okay, and so here's it, this and that, and he calls a few mechanics. Nobody can fix it. The Rolls Royce usually these engines are Rolls. Royce. They send the Rolls Royce Rep this and that, nobody can fix it.
Speaker 2:This is a real guy. Finally. Well, it's one of those states that if it's not true, it should be you know. And so finally, the guy's talking to his buddy and he says no, you know, there's a guy, there's this old, you know maritime marine mechanic guy and the guy's the best, he's the guy you got to call and he's sure call. This fucking old man shows up to the marine. He's got one of those old school like an actual toolbox. You know, nowadays they're all tool bags, they call them toolbox. This guy has a box, okay, a little fucking wooden handle, and he shows up and he gets the boat and he says, all right, let me see it. And they go down the engine room, bro, and the guy you know, he turns it on why does it have a hillbilly accent?
Speaker 3:Because he's from the deep south.
Speaker 1:There may not be a mullet involved.
Speaker 2:He turns it on and the old man goes like this and he listens, and he puts his hand on the side of like the casing, you know, and he feels like this thing and he says, okay, you want me to fix it? And the guy says the guy says, yeah, of course, please do. The old man goes into his tool bag. He pulls out a little tiny little hammer, okay, with like a little mallet tip, and he just turns and he goes like this, to the side of the engine. He goes thunk, thunk, yeah, thought so. And the humming stops, okay, and the, the owner of the boat, is so fucking happy. He's like, oh, my god, you're the best.
Speaker 2:So and so told me you were the best. I don't know why I fucking wasted my time. I'm gonna call you for everything. Now my fucking hose doesn't work. I'm gonna call you. It gives me a big hug, guys, I'll send you a bill Next day. He gets the bill from the old man 10,000 bucks and the guy goes fucking a shit, ten thousand dollars. He calls, the old man goes hey, I got your bill. There must listen, be, I'm still happy that you fixed my boat. So instead of telling you to go fuck yourself, I want to break down.
Speaker 1:I want you to itemize bill.
Speaker 2:I want you to itemize the bill for me of how you got to the $10,000 that you're charging me. And the old man says yeah, no problem. And the old man sends him back an itemized bill that says number one Knocking on side of engine with hammer five dollars. Number two knowing where to knock, 9,995. Yeah, that's, you know, that's the.
Speaker 1:That's the theme of the example of what you're saying with the lawyer, yeah, so so what I'm trying to get at all, right, Well, sorry, let's continue with this. Let's continue with the. Okay, so so if things go wrong Right, that's where a realtor has to pick up the pieces right, potentially have to sell the property again, move to another one, then dumps over a, then them over a, then that's not offloadable work. Having to sell the property again.
Speaker 2:Loatable work, okay, all right, so selling the property before the property sold once you're in contract.
Speaker 1:So once okay, so we're talking about the financing seller that got pissed off.
Speaker 2:Now you gotta, because he found out that after he agreed to 6%, that he paid 3% of that to the buyer's agent, and he didn't know that in advance. And his position is. Had I known that in advance, had I known you Were happy with 3% to sell my house, I would have never agreed to pay you more than 3%. And all and all I said is that, instead of fucking suing people and Dismantling the whole co brokerage system because you got one asshole seller that wants to be babysat, he wants it on the form that that if there's a cooperating agent, you're gonna pay money, and all that. You just had a fucking sentence. It says hey, if you work this deal by yourself, I'm gonna pay you 3%, and if you work it with somebody else, you know, if you're working by yourself, I'm gonna pay you the, the 3%, and if you work it with somebody else, I'll pay 6%, because I know, but if you're on the same you're saying, remark it if you're a selling agent should be able to say no, man, if I work it by myself.
Speaker 2:That's when I really want the 6%, because I gotta do all this extra work.
Speaker 1:I gotta do all I got and I have the here's. The big word is there have the responsibility.
Speaker 2:I am now responsible for the other side, performing and I think that that's the beauty of the negotiation right this lawsuit is seeking to eliminate.
Speaker 3:Undermine right.
Speaker 1:I honestly all of a sudden, if you're on the listing side now and and and that guy shows up with no realtor, dude, you got double the responsibility. You got now two horses in the race, right? And I'm just horses have to finish the race right.
Speaker 2:Better to just leave it to the parties to be able to negotiate 100%. But but in this fucking day and age where people just they don't read, bro, they don't read and they don't want to read, Mm-hmm, they don't want to read.
Speaker 2:They literally teach you in effective communication classes, like via email, like these leadership classes for CEOs and big Department managers. They teach you how to phrase the emails and the memos and shit that you put out to your staff so that it's like get it all out in the first Sentence. Yep, like if you make people go to the third paragraph break, you lost them. Bro. They don't understand anymore. They got to go back and reread. I mean it's fucking insane. What's going on? People just, they just don't read.
Speaker 3:They don't and they're, they're. They're taught not to have an opinion. They're taught to take and, and you can't take someone else's. I to me, the, the, the. The issue always has been that, as a transaction broker, as soon as I represent both sides, I have to take off my team jersey and put on a referee's jersey, and that actually go, would have put it right there.
Speaker 3:That harms my business significantly because my business model has always been traded on that. I look after my people. I take care of my people on my watch. I'm not gonna let them make a mistake.
Speaker 2:You should, it is. It's just the other sides now, your people.
Speaker 3:I know it is, but then you know how you can't fight for both sides.
Speaker 3:I mean that inspection report comes in, I can't try to get my people the extra 1500 from the other side. You know I can't show, I try to earn my keep. That's always been my, my idea of how I run my business, which is to show them I go get the extra little bit of money that the other agents oh, we have an agreement, let's, let's, let's, walk away. I bring them extra. They tell me they'll take 265. I go get them 266, 5, right, jet, that extra 1500 is the thing that gets me their loyalty going forward. That's why they only person they call, and so when I'm actually doing both sides, it precludes my ability to give the kind of service that I like, which and let me tell you this listen, I get that there's realtors out there that that Probably have no business being in the business, but that's not much that.
Speaker 1:That's not very different from a Divorce attorney handling a real estate real estate transaction or a one of those slip and fall guys handling. So you're, you're a hardcore real estate guy. You're in real estate every single day. That's what you do. I mean, you do some other stuff, but real estate is probably 90% of your world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kind of like I said what is it?
Speaker 1:How much? How much percentage of his world is 70%?
Speaker 2:70.65%.
Speaker 1:Right. So, but then you get these guys that you know, and that's when you know it. You know, I know, you've heard me say that you know. And when we, when we argue, the deal killers the deal killers.
Speaker 1:And and listen, I've been, I've been in the business full time for 20 something years now, right, 23, 24 years or something now. And then you deal with an attorney. That's an attorney, and they shit all over your contract. Yeah, and this guy's, this is his first or second transaction, but he's an attorney. You're supposed to like, oh it's, he's an attorney, yeah, and that's. Well, you know, and those are the things. So there's no such thing there. It's not a perfect business, no, right, and just like there's, you know, realtors that shouldn't be in the business. There's also attorneys that I mean. Shouldn't real estate attorneys have to go through some sort of real estate Certification? That should they know the basics of it, because they just don't. I mean, some of you know.
Speaker 2:It's a great question in it. I think it applies more to the you know or, more broadly, to the law in general. So in law school we don't have, like you know, in, and I don't know how it works in medical school, but Right, we call it the practice of medicine and the practice of law. But you know, at least I think for doctors in residency and things like that like they kind of focus on something.
Speaker 2:I think a little more. They kind of do these fellowships to focus on things and it kind of it makes their time in school Incredibly long and painful for them. But you know we don't have that so much. So, like in law school, I focused primarily on on advocacy type classes. You know. So, like when you had the opportunity to take electives, I would take a lot of trial, advocacy based electives. In my mind, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be in trial every day. I wanted to be in court. I'm, you know now that's the opposite of where I want to be. I'm a transactional lawyer, almost exclusive.
Speaker 1:Is there one person that motivated you to get into real estate?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:It was me 100%. Drag this guy by the little bit of hair he still had left and forced them to get into real estate. That's what he won't tell you. No, that, that much is true.
Speaker 2:I didn't like it at the time. I I didn't like it totally against it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't like it so, but what's funny is going back to the, the lawyers, you know they kind of have no business doing the transactions is Because I started my career as a litigator and I litigated for a long time, more than 10 years.
Speaker 2:I can detect right away when I'm involved on a transaction with a lawyer who's never been a litigator. Primarily, it's very hard to find a lawyer who's who's never been in litigation. He's only ever done transactions that maybe at the real big firms. That that's more likely as a general premise Most lawyers have. They've been in a litigation from time to time, they've been in court a few times and that so.
Speaker 2:But but you can tell when someone has never been a litigator, because they want to litigate the Transaction, like they come in and they come in and they come in and they come in and they come in and they come in and they come in and they come in, like they come at it like if there's some adversarial, like if this something like an adversarial proceeding. And I routinely have to tell these people I'm like guys, we, this is a non adversarial setting. In this setting we're all working towards the same goal they want to sell, we want to buy like we just want to get to closing. Imagine being in a world in a setting where what the other side wants is the express opposite of what you want. I mean that's horrible. So I think that they come at it way more aggressively.
Speaker 1:Yes, they don't know what it is.
Speaker 2:The non litigators are more aggressive in transactions than the guys who have suffered. They've never been working the right or do some litigation, because it's like man, this is fucking great. Well, in fact, we're allowed to get along. It's almost like only only the older lawyers like get along with the other side in litigation. Like you got to be a seasoned lawyer for that shit. If you're a new lawyer, there's like a rule if you have a lawsuit against somebody else, the other lawyers just as bad as the other client, you know, and so and that's how these young lawyers are they want to fight. Everything is fight. We call them Rambo litigators. Okay, they send you discovery on Friday. Okay, it's like, hey, friday at 430, here's a fierce 30 fucking questions. I want it by five.
Speaker 1:You're like that's not how it's, it's, it's similar to, it's similar to. So I have two kids that play, come to completely different sports, right. So I have my daughter that plays tennis right. So all her tournaments are country clubs and this and that. And then I got my son, who's been fighting since he was four. I mean you know like literally it's either a jiu-jitsu match or it's wrestling and everything. Yeah, you rarely get into any issues at rest with other parents at wrestling matches. It's very rare. I mean you'll see it every once in a while because a lot of those people there have gotten their ass kicked at some point.
Speaker 2:Now you want to think it over, dude.
Speaker 1:You go to a tennis match and it's the they're. I'm not a small guy. You know like, no, because I'll sue you. No, they come punch me, I'll sue you, they come. I've had people approach me which doesn't happen in the real world. You know what I'm saying. Like, like, they've up and got it in my face. You know like, like, just aggressively. I'm like look at these motherfuckers. They 've never, literally never. They don't know what it feels like they get punched in the face. They don't know what an ass kicking feels like, and that's why they live in a Different world. That doesn't so it's, it's similar to to what you're saying there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I mean again. So you know, look, I've had the displeasure of doing a few divorces, for, like, dear friends of mine, they got divorced and then they, they insisted that the divorces would be uncontested and that there wouldn't be any fighting. And of course that never goes away, it is. But yeah, I mean, the older I get, the less I'll go, you know, outside my wheelhouse. I mean, if you call me for a divorce, it there's like a 99.99999 percent that I'm sending you when, in doubt, we ask, you know a lawyer that specializes in family loan. You know, I think again, I just think that's what you want.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like, if you need knee replacement surgery to go to the dentist, yeah, I mean, it's probably not a great idea. You know, like, could the dentist, if it were the end of the fucking world and he were the only doctor on the island, could he cut your knee open? And I mean, let's put it this way, he's better equipped than the next guy. Yeah, okay, so between the mortgage broker and the dentist, who do you want performing surgery on you if you're on a desert, deserted island?
Speaker 3:Well, I would say the dentist. I'll put it in subset yeah, do we have a?
Speaker 1:chance. Do we have a chance? Because you know, look, I am one of the one of the very few brokers that actually cares about training. Right, there's these hundred percent companies that don't train their people a lot.
Speaker 1:Not only do we train, but we walk them through. There's always somebody there with them at the beginning and etc. Etc. You know and then we got Richard that we call for stuff all the time. So we're, our realtors, are in a bubble where it's kind of hard to fuck things up. They have to completely go off the rails. But that's not not necessarily true for other realtors out there, right? I mean, I remember I had a I want a listing of mine and I had a realtor Put in an offer, okay, where she confused the down payment and I could tell by the way she wrote it. She confused the down payment with the deposit, so it was a $60,000 down payment, but she put it at first deposit, right? I remember I called, so you know how many things could go wrong that they lose that $60,000 deposit. It was on a $200,000 townhouse, so it was it. Was it no need to have 60 grand on deposit? Aggressive?
Speaker 2:Showing that.
Speaker 3:You can tell when that's the case when they're showing commitment and you can tell when I call regular. Listen to what I'm telling you.
Speaker 1:Listen, I don't want you to come to my company because I'm gonna. You're gonna think that I'm giving you advice Just cuz I'm trying to recruit you. As soon as you finish this transaction here, get the fuck out of there and run, run. You have no idea the type of mistake that you just made, right now right.
Speaker 1:You just opened up and you could have potentially lost. So please, I am begging you, go somewhere where they train you. So my point is and I know that I know a freck is different than DBPR in the whole situation but is there anything we can do so that the real estate class is Not a complete waste of fucking time? And it's actually the course and the exams and everything that they actually teach you something that addendums how to write a con. I mean just real life stuff.
Speaker 2:It's it's. It's Fascinating that you brought that up true story at Commission last week on Wednesday. Usually Tuesday's the day that we deal with applicants. Okay, so if you're looking for a license and you have some issue in your past, call it past. Yeah, tuesdays we deal with that. Tuesdays we deal with education. So if you, if you have a class that you want to get Certified for continuing education, we do that. Wednesday we do what's called the legal appearance doc. So we get, like the edos, the escrow disbursement order disputes.
Speaker 2:So when the you know broker has the escrow and there's a dispute about that. And then we do like the legal cases where Licenses are being brought up on. They're being prosecuted for violations of chapter 475 and those include anything from Failing to timely report a conviction. So that happens a lot. You know the the rules require you to report any convictions within 30 days. Okay, so many times people don't do that. The department finds out. They prosecute you to, usually a slap in the wrist the first time.
Speaker 2:You know you're failing to account and deliver. You know you fraud type claims, things like that. You make mistakes. You put the escrow deposit in your account. You know things you shouldn't do, okay, and then at the end we usually have public comment, new business, and sometimes we open for rules, okay.
Speaker 2:So so right now there's there's a big push to improve the way that we deal with multiple broker Licenses. Okay, because you got these guys now that, like you know, there's one guy's got like a hundred and seven licenses and the Commission really hates that, okay, and so now we're looking at how to improve that, the application form on that, so that we can you know the Commission and the Department gets more info that might be important, like if you've suffered discipline in another jurisdiction or something like that. But then at the end, during public comment, we had somebody come up and say that we needed to do something about the requirements to become a licensee, that we needed to improve top down everything for what they teach, to the exam, to everything else, because you know like we have a lot of agents that really shouldn't be agents.
Speaker 1:But it comes from. They go to companies that shouldn't be in business, but by then it's too late.
Speaker 2:They're already licensed. So I mean at that point Well, but they still have to be out there.
Speaker 1:So they have to go through a company. So if you go to, you're a brand new agent happens all the time they go to these 100% commission companies.
Speaker 3:What incentive does a 100% commission company have to train an agent to do anything, but that's that unfortunate Anything that unfortunately has been the downward spiral, qualitatively, of the industry Since we went from the days of 50-50 splits with brokers. I mean, it used to be that they could take and give you a test on the legal parameters of getting and maintaining your license, because that's information that you're not gonna get about the craft, and so that's the reason why that test could be what it is, but it's all it is I understand because they expected you to leave and go get trained in your craft from this broker Right.
Speaker 1:so it's an outdated thought. They're working from the 1950s. The thought of the 1950s were actually very big. Let me tell you what the response was.
Speaker 2:And here's the problem. I jumped in, I echoed the sentiment right away, and so did a couple of my fellow commissioners. But the problem is there's this one guy and he's the man. He's like the sage of the commission right now.
Speaker 3:He's been on here a long time man.
Speaker 2:He represented the department. I mean, he's been in that world forever and his name's Randy Schwartz. He's a lawyer, he's an amazing human and he hears us all you know it's like yeah you know, raw, raw. Everything's gotta change. It's a disaster, you know, and I even made what would be an unpopular comment for people down here. I said it's a farce that we offer the exam in Spanish I go. By the way, I'm a child of Cuban immigrants.
Speaker 1:No, no, I agree with this, so am I.
Speaker 2:The fact that you can take the exam in Spanish, to me, is just a miscarriage of justice 100%.
Speaker 1:And this is from a guy who was born in Cuba. Yeah, absolutely 100%.
Speaker 2:Liberalism and equality run amok yeah yeah, yeah. Because you know what the forms are not in Spanish. You're not gonna fight in Spanish.
Speaker 1:You're in the.
Speaker 2:United.
Speaker 3:States.
Speaker 2:You're gonna go to court in Spanish. I mean, come on, guys, you gotta be able to take the test in English.
Speaker 3:You gotta be able to protect the customers.
Speaker 2:In my view, in my view, I mean obviously that's not the law you know we get in Spanish.
Speaker 1:No, but it's 100% agree with you.
Speaker 2:But it's ridiculous. And so when we were all finished, schwartz, who's like you know, always comes in at the end. He says All right, he's like everybody done, can I just say something? And I said, and we all look down and the chairwoman's like yes, of course. And he says that all sounds great, that's all beautiful, but if we're not gonna get any assistance from the Florida Association of Realtors, we're going nowhere. Okay, we can sit here and we can cry about it all we want, but if we don't have the lobbying and the support from the industry, we're never gonna get it.
Speaker 1:But hold on, wait a second, cause I just thought of something. Right now we have a Frick, a commissioner already, or no, yeah, I mean no chairman, vice chairman, vice chairman, okay. And we got a gentleman who teaches for the Florida and the National Association of Realtors. I mean, anybody could get it done as you guys Now.
Speaker 3:I mean, you got to because you're messing with the money. Yeah, let's be honest, that's the problem. I mean the reality of it is and I hate to say this, especially in some place where it's gonna be disseminated like this, but the business model for the Right.
Speaker 2:This is forever. It is what it is. I mean, especially with these guys. I got a list, like a fucking scroll, of places where this guy posted the idea. It was almost like like that's a lot of people hearing me say shit.
Speaker 3:The reality of it is. I mean, the business model for them is a numbers business. They seem to be okay with the 80%, or whatever it is attrition rate every couple of years and that turnover. It's to make the tent as big as it can possibly be, bring as many people in and, I guess, collect the revenue from it in order to maintain their lobbying.
Speaker 1:But listen, the part timer, the part timer, okay, somebody who. This happens all the time. They come in here and they have a nine to five and they're basically just in here to, oh, invest in a real estate which they never fucking do, right? But now they have their cousin. That is, this is my world. They have their cousin who's buying and then they tell me hey, since this is my cousin, can I get a break on our split? Yeah, I'm like, wait a second.
Speaker 1:So this is your first transaction. You don't know shit. You don't know so much that you don't even know what you don't know, right? Like that's the scary part. I gotta work harder. And you want me to give you a break, right? No, I actually have to know. Forget about harder. I gotta do the transaction for you. Yep, I have to do the transaction for you, right, because that's what happens. So then, so that's me, because I care and I have an infrastructure that's going to walk you through and it's going to teach you in the whole situation. But, dude, there's these companies out there. They come with the cousin, the deal oh, you're in a hundred, we agree, we're in a hundred percent split. This is your responsibility, not mine.
Speaker 3:Figure it out.
Speaker 1:So now that person's out there putting in offers, putting deposits, respecting the dates, my ass, forget about the dates, forget about inspection period, forget about financing period, forget about any of that stuff, and then people lose. So that's the thing. So, yeah, I understand as part of the business model.
Speaker 2:Huge commission pet peeve too. Is that the department rare? And when I say the department, I mean like the prosecutors. Okay. So like the commission dynamic, you should well, you've been there, but you should come.
Speaker 1:I've been there for another reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do want to go back as a regular civilian.
Speaker 2:You should come because there's the dynamic the commissioners sit in front of the room long-wise.
Speaker 1:What do you want?
Speaker 2:next September, 12th, 13th, and then to the right of the commission is like division staff, so like the people that work at the division of real estate, executive director and those people. And then on the left are the lawyers our lawyer and then the government's lawyers, and these people work for the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation and they're the ones that file the complaints, they prosecute the cases against licensees that make mistakes, and many of my, and they're on the commission. There are two industry members and the rest of them I'm sorry, two consumer members and the rest are industry members. So a consumer member is like me and shorts the other lawyer. We're not licensees, so we're consumer members. The rest of the commissioners are brokers typically, but they're licensees, okay, and so the other licensee members of the commission. They are annoyed. It's a huge pet peeve of theirs that they view as insufficient broker accountability. We almost never get the broker in there with the agents. So you get these agents that are brought up on these.
Speaker 1:You know what? 100% I agree with that.
Speaker 2:Horrific, horrific charges.
Speaker 1:Where's the guy who's responsible to train you? Yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah, and the brokers listen, never mind that they're never charged. Okay, which is what these commissioners feel they should be that there should be more prosecutions under, like the broker supervisory.
Speaker 1:But about. I work on the actions. I work on the like. Listen, this is my responsibility.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh no, there's a and, so not only do we rarely have cases where we're bringing in the broker okay, unless the broker themselves is, you know, the part of the transaction, or whatever the perpetrator let's call it right or the alleged. The respondent is what we call it in that setting. They're not defendants they're respondents. Okay, and so you know we had a big case this past meeting that it's gonna be very interesting to see how it works out, but the broker was there and so the Voluntarily yes yes.
Speaker 2:And you know he's among the state's very best. I mean, he's a well-known individual and you know it's refreshing to see the broker there and you could just tell right away. And, by the way, and I was telling the, every Tuesday we have dinner with the commission and I was telling these you know, my colleagues, that when I go up to Orlando it's super refreshing to deal with the agents that come there and the licensees that come to the room, like usually on day two for the legal appearance docket. Different offices from different parts of the state will come in and many times the individual or the community-based realtor associations will come in. So you'll get Orlando.
Speaker 2:They call it Aura. You know they get Orlando in there. You get Daytona in there. You get, you know, the Seacoast people and like, and so they come in to watch and it's like a big deal. They wanna come and they wanna see and the quality of agent Once you cross the Miami-Dade-Broward line, like the more north you go, the more serious these people take the business and I was talking to them the other day and I was saying I'd be willing to-.
Speaker 1:So we should set ourselves Florida from Florida.
Speaker 2:No, listen, in some instances that would be good and bad, but I'll tell you what. And we can ask Cadillac for the statistical probability of this Cadillac, please.
Speaker 2:But I would be willing to bet that 90% of the part-time agents are in Miami-Dade County. Yeah, you know, like, the more north you go, if you're a licensee, if you're a realtor, a sales associate or a broker, that's more likely to be your full-time occupation. That's what you do for a living. You're respected as such, right and down here. It's like, you know, like the classic Carlos Gutierrez story that you love, the guy's getting a haircut. At the time he was the president Miami Association of Realtors. So he would tell you within five seconds of meeting you that too, because he was very proud of it. And he's getting a haircut and he says that. The barber says to him what do you do? And then he says I'm a realtor and the barber's like, oh, me too, yeah.
Speaker 3:So exactly.
Speaker 1:I can't give you guys some stats on that.
Speaker 3:Actually, if you want and this is something I do in all the classes that I teach I go all over the country and I ask agents, not about part-time agents. I ask them what percentage of agents would you say are bad agents? And so you would think you get into the northern part of the state. You know these places where people Wyoming Montana the number I get, no matter where I go, is the same 80% is what Bad agents?
Speaker 3:So four out of five agents think other agents are bad agents. Which means because my point always is when you walk into the room with a customer you're at a negative perception. They have a bad perception of real estate agents in general. So I've got to work my way out of that hole. I've got to negotiate my way out of that hole Same thing car salesmen, lawyers. Absolutely yeah. Yeah, we're definitely at right in the bottom, so I have to before, but lawyers have to go through shit, but they have to like.
Speaker 2:I know, but they're just seen as fucking shitty people.
Speaker 3:There's a couple of moving pieces to this right. What's the training? Typically, maybe not you guys, but what would they teach agents? Go in there and ask questions, ask open-ended questions. Get them to be your friend.
Speaker 3:I don't ask questions, I make assumptions on the way in. I make assumptions on the way in because this is not my first rodeo, so it's not my first rodeo. I know they're interested in the market. They want to know what's going on right now. They want to know what the outlook is for what they're getting ready to do. I don't need to ask a bunch of questions, because before I ask questions I want to make sure I've made the case that I deserve the truth, and so this is kind of the problem. And this is another thing that I talk about in the classes with people to your point about how the license is, and it doesn't matter where I go, Even the states where the licensure is more complicated I say you go to class, you take a test, you pass the test, they hand you a license, they smack in the button, say go to the real estate, and you turn around and you're like, but I don't know how, like you didn't show me how to do it and you got to go figure it out on your own Right.
Speaker 1:But it's also unfair of the state right, and I know it's different, I know the freck is different than the DVR and the state is different than but it's also unfair that you get these guys out there. You get the barber right and you get them out there and you get them licensed. Then they go to 100% company, then they put in an offer and they lose the client's deposit and now they're there to lose their license and then it's all their fault. I mean, I agree with the system and I hate to agree on. I think it's everybody's responsibility and I get that. But man, it is a broken system.
Speaker 3:It is very much a broken system and unfortunately the financial incentive is not lined up with those that have political power. So when I make these, recruiting calls.
Speaker 1:So when I make these recruiting calls I have a rule of thumb, right. If the first question they ask me on the phone is what my commission split is, click, bye, bye. And it's hard to do that because you're like fuck, you know, maybe they could sell and you're kind of throwing away money. But if you're not asking who's, how's the training, when is the training, who's training me and what support do I have to support that training, dude, you're just. If all you care about is getting 100% commission man, go ahead, don't come here.
Speaker 3:And that's the thing that blows my mind. Right, People spend a week getting this license. Let's call it a seven days.
Speaker 1:I spent a couple months, six days a week, taking the class right.
Speaker 3:It is what it is, and then they're so unwilling to in any way take the two scarce resources of life, or time and money, and invest it back in. You talk about going to get a law degree. What was the cost of that? And people are more than willing to go to college.
Speaker 2:As soon as he reminds me every day, Constantly right.
Speaker 3:It's a thing right, you spend this money to take and go get a degree in business or whatever, and then you want to put a job that has nothing to do with it on the back end side, but you're okay with spending all that money to get that degree, whereas you're actually in the industry where you're making money today and you won't take and spend the time or money to take and get trained to learn what the hell you're doing.
Speaker 1:Okay, so can we at least make the continuing education within six months and add actual shit there, Like real content you know.
Speaker 3:Well, I'll say that, right, maybe that's a solution.
Speaker 1:The cash register's still ringing. You don't think there's a solution, Richard? I send a shout out to the people I mean no, I do.
Speaker 2:I think that the solution is the same one. There is to like a lot of the world's problems, like you need a massive purge, like eight of every 10 needs to just be vanished, and then you can take a small population and kind of and fix the rest. I mean you can't, like you know, these massive changes, it's just too much inertia. It's like trying to turn a cruise ship is going fucking downhill, you know, I mean it's just not again. The incentive's not there. And that's why, when Schwartz said that I mean I could tell my balloon flew away, I was like, oh, I guess we're fucked.
Speaker 2:I guess we're never you know, because, like they're not and, by the way, the lawyer for the Florida associations of realtors was there she's usually there on day two. You know, she comes to watch, especially when we have rules, when we're opening up a rule workshops, which, like we're doing now, they come in and they're very there. They give their opinion.
Speaker 1:Okay, they want to give language.
Speaker 2:They want to do all these things. And Schwartz said it and you know she turned and she gave the perfect lawyer answer. She's like obviously I'm not authorized to agree or even comment on the matter, but hey, I'll take it back to the powers that be and we're like, it's like the emperor going, yeah, done.
Speaker 2:So I mean it's tough, but I mean again, it's, in my view, the good and the bad of it. By the way, same thing happens with lawyers. Okay, like I mean I know it's hard because you got to go to law school and you got to take the bar exam, but I mean again, you and I know some lawyers that it's like how is this possible?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so what happens is that unfortunately Do I name your names or you know, no, I'll get you a throw up. I want to get me a throw up, don't help me bro, I don't need any help.
Speaker 3:I think there's a kind of a yay and nay to all of this, in the sense that I was very lucky and I want to take and send a shout out to a guy that was very helpful in my career. The guy that gave me my post license was a gentleman named Rick Burch who's been with Miami Association Humanary Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And super, super cool guy, but he had this dictated class that he had to do, but it was the extra stuff that he put in there. I can never forget running with the big dogs how to actually do this business the right way. Like the extra supplemental stuff. That's the stuff that actually mattered and the value. And the problem winds up being that that's not part of the actual curriculum and I don't know how it hurts the association of realtors for that part of it to be in. Like I get, there's a bandwidth limitation, right, and that's the big thing. Like when I started in real estate I try to keep this front of mind when I came in, I was overwhelmed by all the things that I needed to learn. You know like, all right, there's the MLS, there's the contract, there's listing agreement, and like it doesn't seem like a lot, but it's getting all dumped on you and you need to be good at this right away or you really can't do this business. And so it took two or three months.
Speaker 2:Unless you're in Dade County, Unless you're in Dade which.
Speaker 1:I was Well co-trayer, hey, you know what. But, richard, you know what? Listen in summary, because we gotta end it up. We've been like an hour and a half earlier, an hour and 15. But listen, the maybe, maybe forcing the brokers to show up every time there's a fucking issue. That's the way you start getting these guys to actually put, because I tell you what. Start taking a tally on how many of the people that show up are from these 100% commission companies. Start taking a mental tally.
Speaker 2:Oh no we hate, and, by the way, again the industry members, especially because they're much more versed in like these dynamics but, they hate team advertising. They hate like the team concepts. They hate. Hate is a strong word. They are displeased, they're displeased with the state of the industry with these things. Lack of boner, boner.
Speaker 1:The lack of boner is probably not a the lack of boner is not a problem.
Speaker 2:The lack of broker accountability big problem. The 100% commission companies, you know.
Speaker 3:I think even if you just were to make it that they had to come, the inconvenience factor would take and increase.
Speaker 1:I agree, I think that's the way. I think that's the way Because if you got and all of a sudden you're there three times right and you start recognizing there's an issue there, oh yeah, now it's not the agent's fault, you know what I mean. It's the broker's fault.
Speaker 2:So all right guys, I think you should come next time.
Speaker 1:I am, I am, I really am, I really am, I'm, really am, I'm definitely. It'd be good to show up as a guy who's not there begging for his license.
Speaker 2:The security guard is my friend. I will have you escort him if you refrain from that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you guys know. So you're in on the joke. I, when I first got my license, I had a little I was a colorful past a little couple of marijuana charges and stuff like that, so I had to go and beg the commission.
Speaker 2:But nowadays we don't even give a shit about that. We see marijuana and we're like, oh, he's approved yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did I tell you the story on? We'll end it with this. So I get there, I get denied for my first time, right? So I, you know, I present my case and you know I was 20 or 19 or something and they're like well, denied and then Denied for license or broker For licensure, right Back then it was a serious marijuana. Yeah, yeah, and I had cultivation, so it was like a little. It was a little different right. So so I go in.
Speaker 2:I go in the second time, the second time, the second time. He's an agronomist, yeah.
Speaker 3:Agricultural exploits Actually on the newspaper article.
Speaker 1:When I got caught doing it, I said Jesus was using his green thumb for something other something other than growing roses.
Speaker 1:I have that article somewhere. So then I go the second time and I'm like dude, this is I remember. So I I the real estate since I got a high school. It's all I really wanted to do. So it's not like I wanted to try and this is it. So it was like dude, this isn't my stopping my life, I needed to get this license. So I get through. The second time it was like six months later. I couldn't go. I had to wait like six months. And I go the second time and I plead my case and this and that, and they're like, and they're like they're for the vote and they're like no, you know, nay, or I'm like whoa, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:I literally said like no, no, no, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys. Listen, this is as good as I get, like I'm not. You stopping this for another year is not going to do anything. This is it Like. This is like I'm begging you, like you know, dude. They all start laughing Like like uncontrolled, and they're like all right, you got it, like it wasn't even purposely done, like, bro, this is this, is it Like nothing. The story gets better than this, though. Oh, the second time. Yeah, because yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, no, no, no, no, because so no, but now finished. So then Jesus now is going to go to become a broker?
Speaker 1:OK, but then I got a shit on your partner and by then no, it doesn't matter oh no, I do. I don't have to say anything, but I have to say it's your partner.
Speaker 2:So so we he's now going to be a broker, ok, and I'll never forget that he wants me to review his application, like that he's going to submit, and he wants me to review it, of course, yesterday, ok, but the day he's emailing it to me I happen to be in Disney, dude, with my family. You know, it was just my wife at the time, you know. So I like didn't want to do it right then and there nor could it be submitted, it was like a Saturday, ok. So I'm like, dude, why don't you just wait for me to get back to the office on Monday? I'll take care of about no fuck that. He didn't like that answer. So he calls my, my former law partner. And there was, there's a question. It's question number one. It's a question number one on the application.
Speaker 2:And it's amazing, and it's like have you ever been convicted, arrested of a crime, this and this and that? And it's like. And then it tells you, like that, so that's you must disclose whether you played out, whether it's that, whether you've been pardoned by the president of the United States, you must still disclose. Ok, jesus talks to my former partner and somehow they arrive, despite that language, that the right answer was not to disclose was not to disclose that he, his prior convictions.
Speaker 1:Never mind that I also already went through it. It's already been disclosed.
Speaker 2:There was no new ones, even if you've been pardoned by the president, was not sufficiently clear, and this goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Sometimes you just can't remove the ambiguity enough. Sometimes there's there's no way to fix it, ok. And so this guy says no, and of course he gets brought up for hearing and he's got to have a hearing. Is that because we've now found the non-disclosures? You go with him? No, are you crazy? No, no one did. Oh, I went and I figured it out.
Speaker 1:No one did.
Speaker 2:I tried to get you to hire my other friend.
Speaker 1:I got a quarter to ten grand. That's why you hate him, right, yeah, right, that's why you hate him. And then I went and did it myself and I got to do it.
Speaker 2:So so he goes and he doesn't hate himself and but what's funny about this is that when he goes up there and they they're giving him the third degree about hey, you know how come you didn't disclose this, isn't that he tells the story? And again, I would have loved to have for this, because we get some colorful characters up there.
Speaker 3:but I could just imagine this guy.
Speaker 2:He was like you know, I spoke to my lawyer, I spoke to one of my lawyers and the guy said you have to disclose it. He even pointed out even though you, even if you've been pardoned by the president of the United States. But I spoke to the other lawyer and he was like no, you don't have to disclose it. I like that answer better. So I went with that one and fuck, here I am. So I mean, I fucked up. What do you want me to?
Speaker 1:do, and you ended up getting it.
Speaker 2:I ended up getting it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I'm definitely going to the next one. All right guys, all right, another episode.
Speaker 2:Good times. Anything else In the book. Next time we move together it'll be thirty four.
Speaker 1:Yes, just see, just so you know Thirty. I remember that because this is Larry Bird. At thirty three, larry Bird was on my shoes down.
Speaker 2:All right, I got to go back to work. Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1:All right guys.
